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College education is treated as a litmus test for whether someone can figure out abstract things and produce useful output. Which is all fine and dandy, except

College education is treated as a litmus test for whether someone can figure out abstract things and produce useful output. Which is all fine and dandy, except that ”having a degree” is not really a pure measurement: it’s always confounded with a certain amount of wading-through-the-bullwhip tenacity (useless but mandatory curriculum -> non-questioning serf mentality) and a hefty slice of affluenza (outright bribery).

jvanderbot 4y ago
I agree, but stated another way, college is also a test of 'can this person adapt and meet demands to excel in a new system', a skill which I believe is underrated, under measured, and hugely valuable.
- brnaftr361 4y ago
  Nah, so far as I can tell: it's compliance. It asks the question "Will you do what it takes, even when it's irrational, to pattern yourself after our model?" Moreover it's painfully easy to exploit your way through especially if you're already rich. Just go doctor shopping with Mommy so you can get a 504 and accomodations and stimulant medications. If it selected for adaptation the curriculum would be different, things like figuring out the area of a circle using given materials, not abstract shit. If it selected for intelligence there would br a huge battery of exceptions, handicaps for the working class kids, because they have to put in way more effort than the kids living with their parents who are unemployed, likewise with non-traditionals.
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    You're repeating what I said: adapting to an existing process and finding success within a system is exactly what college teaches and filters on. That's usually a good thing for most job seekers. I cannot fathom a successful professional that does not balance 'I must innovate the sysyem even if it hurts me' against 'I will work within this system for my own personal benefit by providing exactly what is requested of me'
  - _vdpp 4y ago
    The term “504” was new to me - doctor-prescribed academic assistance, apparently. https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html Is this being abused?
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    Both these can be true: - Rich people can painfully easily exploit something to make their ROI much higher - That something can be an immensely valuable investment for the non-rich
dan-robertson 4y ago
It sounds like you are arguing that college degrees are poor signals for one’s intelligence but then you write: > a certain amount of wading-through-the-bullwhip tenacity (useless but mandatory curriculum -> non-questioning serf mentality) And I think a lot of people (though not me and maybe not you) would find that that is a good description of attributes employers would like. And for many people the point of a college degree is appealing to employers rather than proving oneself to be intelligent.

jvanderbot 4y ago

I agree, but stated another way, college is also a test of 'can this person adapt and meet demands to excel in a new system', a skill which I believe is underrated, under measured, and hugely valuable.

brnaftr361 4y ago
Nah, so far as I can tell: it's compliance. It asks the question "Will you do what it takes, even when it's irrational, to pattern yourself after our model?" Moreover it's painfully easy to exploit your way through especially if you're already rich. Just go doctor shopping with Mommy so you can get a 504 and accomodations and stimulant medications. If it selected for adaptation the curriculum would be different, things like figuring out the area of a circle using given materials, not abstract shit. If it selected for intelligence there would br a huge battery of exceptions, handicaps for the working class kids, because they have to put in way more effort than the kids living with their parents who are unemployed, likewise with non-traditionals.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  You're repeating what I said: adapting to an existing process and finding success within a system is exactly what college teaches and filters on. That's usually a good thing for most job seekers. I cannot fathom a successful professional that does not balance 'I must innovate the sysyem even if it hurts me' against 'I will work within this system for my own personal benefit by providing exactly what is requested of me'
- _vdpp 4y ago
  The term “504” was new to me - doctor-prescribed academic assistance, apparently. https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html Is this being abused?
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  Both these can be true: - Rich people can painfully easily exploit something to make their ROI much higher - That something can be an immensely valuable investment for the non-rich

dan-robertson 4y ago

It sounds like you are arguing that college degrees are poor signals for one’s intelligence but then you write: > a certain amount of wading-through-the-bullwhip tenacity (useless but mandatory curriculum -> non-questioning serf mentality) And I think a lot of people (though not me and maybe not you) would find that that is a good description of attributes employers would like. And for many people the point of a college degree is appealing to employers rather than proving oneself to be intelligent.