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It sounds like she might be sensitive to the plant estrogens in soy, but hopefully nobody thinks that milk from a pregnant cow is free of animal estrogens and o

It sounds like she might be sensitive to the plant estrogens in soy, but hopefully nobody thinks that milk from a pregnant cow is free of animal estrogens and other hormones. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/

dijit 4y ago
Sure. Not pretending, but given the strong link[0] I would prefer more research in this area. We’ve been drinking bovine milk for about 10,000 years and heavily ingesting soy in the west for about 100 years (with a sharp uptick over the 50 years[1], the same time that testosterone is rapidly declining in men[2]) I would prefer more research for the new thing than the old thing, for the simple fact that we’ve been doing the old thing so long that it’s either safe or we’ve already bore the consequences. To be fully clear: I’m not saying that this is a correlation; testosterone decline is suspected to be caused by BPA plastics: but what I’m saying is that given it has been linked with hormone abnormalities, I would be more skeptical of recommending it as a central component of a growing bodies diet. [0]: https://helloclue.com/articles/culture/does-eating-soy-affect-your-hormones https://helloclue.com/articles/culture/does-eating-soy-affec... [1]: https://ourworldindata.org/soy https://ourworldindata.org/soy [2]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-the-man-your-father-was/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-t... p.s: sorry for the formatting/grammar, I’m writing this on a phone.
- em500 4y ago
  What strong link? AFAICT your first reference says basically everything is unknown. As for > We’ve been drinking bovine milk for about 10,000 years and heavily ingesting soy in the west for about 100 years (with a sharp uptick over the 50 years[1], the same time that testosterone is rapidly declining in men[2]) I think in countries like China and Japan those timelines are almost reversed.
  - dijit 4y ago
    > What strong link? AFAICT your first reference says basically everything is unknown. The link literally says there's a link (as in, we need to investigate, there is some linkage here we don't understand) and it's understudied. it goes on to say: >> Research suggests that eating soy products might decrease FSH and LH in people who are premenopausal, which may impact fertility. And it might increase estrogen in people who are menopausal, leading to a reduction in menopausal symptoms. [..] It’s not yet understood how these changes could impact people who menstruate. Obviously this is affecting hormones >> Animal studies suggest there may be slight hormonal and reproductive changes in male mice when they are exposed to soy consistently throughout their entire lifetimes I'm arguing that we shouldn't jump on something until it's understood. > I think in countries like China and Asia those timelines are almost reversed. Yes, and China and Asia tends to be lactose intolerant, so what exactly is your point here? That an Asian persons body has had the time to adapt to Soy does not mean it's safe for westerners immediately, it could be, but it equally could not be.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - windexh8er 4y ago
      >> I'm arguing that we shouldn't jump on something until it's understood. Canada redid their food guide without the aid of lobbying. What didn't make the cut was meats and dairy [0]. The entire revamp of their national food guide was rooted in evidence based science. Humans don't need dairy milk, soy/oat/almond milks. Drink more water. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46964549 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46964549
      - dijit 4y ago
        This is frustrating to contend with because I’m not actually arguing for dairy. I’m arguing against soy. And I’m not even arguing against soy, I’m arguing against taking soy at face value until we understand it better.

dijit 4y ago

Sure. Not pretending, but given the strong link[0] I would prefer more research in this area. We’ve been drinking bovine milk for about 10,000 years and heavily ingesting soy in the west for about 100 years (with a sharp uptick over the 50 years[1], the same time that testosterone is rapidly declining in men[2]) I would prefer more research for the new thing than the old thing, for the simple fact that we’ve been doing the old thing so long that it’s either safe or we’ve already bore the consequences. To be fully clear: I’m not saying that this is a correlation; testosterone decline is suspected to be caused by BPA plastics: but what I’m saying is that given it has been linked with hormone abnormalities, I would be more skeptical of recommending it as a central component of a growing bodies diet. [0]: https://helloclue.com/articles/culture/does-eating-soy-affect-your-hormones https://helloclue.com/articles/culture/does-eating-soy-affec... [1]: https://ourworldindata.org/soy https://ourworldindata.org/soy [2]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-the-man-your-father-was/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-t... p.s: sorry for the formatting/grammar, I’m writing this on a phone.

em500 4y ago
What strong link? AFAICT your first reference says basically everything is unknown. As for > We’ve been drinking bovine milk for about 10,000 years and heavily ingesting soy in the west for about 100 years (with a sharp uptick over the 50 years[1], the same time that testosterone is rapidly declining in men[2]) I think in countries like China and Japan those timelines are almost reversed.
- dijit 4y ago
  > What strong link? AFAICT your first reference says basically everything is unknown. The link literally says there's a link (as in, we need to investigate, there is some linkage here we don't understand) and it's understudied. it goes on to say: >> Research suggests that eating soy products might decrease FSH and LH in people who are premenopausal, which may impact fertility. And it might increase estrogen in people who are menopausal, leading to a reduction in menopausal symptoms. [..] It’s not yet understood how these changes could impact people who menstruate. Obviously this is affecting hormones >> Animal studies suggest there may be slight hormonal and reproductive changes in male mice when they are exposed to soy consistently throughout their entire lifetimes I'm arguing that we shouldn't jump on something until it's understood. > I think in countries like China and Asia those timelines are almost reversed. Yes, and China and Asia tends to be lactose intolerant, so what exactly is your point here? That an Asian persons body has had the time to adapt to Soy does not mean it's safe for westerners immediately, it could be, but it equally could not be.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - windexh8er 4y ago
    >> I'm arguing that we shouldn't jump on something until it's understood. Canada redid their food guide without the aid of lobbying. What didn't make the cut was meats and dairy [0]. The entire revamp of their national food guide was rooted in evidence based science. Humans don't need dairy milk, soy/oat/almond milks. Drink more water. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46964549 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46964549
    - dijit 4y ago
      This is frustrating to contend with because I’m not actually arguing for dairy. I’m arguing against soy. And I’m not even arguing against soy, I’m arguing against taking soy at face value until we understand it better.