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I'm sure there is lots of propaganda at play, but it doesn't change the basic numbers of Russia having over three times Ukraine's population and nearly ten time

I'm sure there is lots of propaganda at play, but it doesn't change the basic numbers of Russia having over three times Ukraine's population and nearly ten times their GDP, also a much larger military with a much larger military budget. With all those advantages you shouldn't need excellence to secure victory just basic level competence, yet look what's happening.

RobertoG 4y ago
But Russia has not mobilized. That's why they keep calling this clusterf*ck a 'special operation'. In fact, I don't know the exact numbers, but my impression is that they have less troops than the defenders in Ukraine. And your comparative is kind of unfair. I mean, the war is kind of stuck, with all the support from NATO. Imagine how it would go without external support. It really bothers me being "that guy", because I have not special love for Putin and its band of kleptocrats, but come on, let's have a little of critical thinking. Or do you think that the USA support of Ukraine is for "defending freedom"?
- earthbee 4y ago
  We know exactly how the war would go without the external support because that's how the war started. Russia picked the time, date, place and had the initiative, Ukraine wasn't convinced that Russia was going to invade despite US warnings, and yet despite all that the Russian advance bogged down in three days. After one month multiple intelligence sources and an accidental leak from Russia said Russia had experienced around 10,000 fatalities. This was during the period before significant amounts of arms had arrived from other countries. This was done by Ukraine largely using what it had at the outbreak of war. That is a huge number of dead in such a short time. This is not Russia showing competence. Like you said, Russia hasn't mobilised, but they wouldn't start a war they thought they wouldn't win so the fact they haven't mobilised and invaded anyway shows poor intelligence and lack of judgement. The fact Russia didn't mobilise isn't evidence of Russia secretly been good actually, it's more evidence of incompetence. And clearly Russia hasn't sent its entire military but since their military is much larger than Ukraine's they can pick the units and equipment most suitable for the mission, where Ukraine just has to use everything, regular military, reservists, paramilitaries, and in many cases volunteers with literally hours of training. So even if the numbers are similar the advantage would still be with Russia. No matter how you try to paint it Russia had nearly every advantage yet still managed to largely stall in just three days and experience huge losses doing it. It is blindingly clear the Russian military is doing a very incompetent job and it takes some very motivated reasoning to begin to argue otherwise. It's not just enough to call for critical thinking, you actually have to practice it.
  - RobertoG 4y ago
    Well, if we know exactly how the war would go without the external support, now with all that external support, should be a walk in the park.
justsomehnguy 4y ago
> With all those advantages But without all that intel from US and NATO, including almost real-time satellite data and location of high value targets. >> “We did not provide Ukraine with specific targeting information for the Moskva,” "Don't look at LAT XXX LOG YYY, don't send drones there, don't have some missiles ready" [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/05/us-intelligence-helping-ukraine-kill-russian-generals-report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/05/us-intelligenc... [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/05/11/ukraine-us-intelligence-sharing-war/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/05/11/...

RobertoG 4y ago

But Russia has not mobilized. That's why they keep calling this clusterf*ck a 'special operation'. In fact, I don't know the exact numbers, but my impression is that they have less troops than the defenders in Ukraine. And your comparative is kind of unfair. I mean, the war is kind of stuck, with all the support from NATO. Imagine how it would go without external support. It really bothers me being "that guy", because I have not special love for Putin and its band of kleptocrats, but come on, let's have a little of critical thinking. Or do you think that the USA support of Ukraine is for "defending freedom"?

earthbee 4y ago
We know exactly how the war would go without the external support because that's how the war started. Russia picked the time, date, place and had the initiative, Ukraine wasn't convinced that Russia was going to invade despite US warnings, and yet despite all that the Russian advance bogged down in three days. After one month multiple intelligence sources and an accidental leak from Russia said Russia had experienced around 10,000 fatalities. This was during the period before significant amounts of arms had arrived from other countries. This was done by Ukraine largely using what it had at the outbreak of war. That is a huge number of dead in such a short time. This is not Russia showing competence. Like you said, Russia hasn't mobilised, but they wouldn't start a war they thought they wouldn't win so the fact they haven't mobilised and invaded anyway shows poor intelligence and lack of judgement. The fact Russia didn't mobilise isn't evidence of Russia secretly been good actually, it's more evidence of incompetence. And clearly Russia hasn't sent its entire military but since their military is much larger than Ukraine's they can pick the units and equipment most suitable for the mission, where Ukraine just has to use everything, regular military, reservists, paramilitaries, and in many cases volunteers with literally hours of training. So even if the numbers are similar the advantage would still be with Russia. No matter how you try to paint it Russia had nearly every advantage yet still managed to largely stall in just three days and experience huge losses doing it. It is blindingly clear the Russian military is doing a very incompetent job and it takes some very motivated reasoning to begin to argue otherwise. It's not just enough to call for critical thinking, you actually have to practice it.
- RobertoG 4y ago
  Well, if we know exactly how the war would go without the external support, now with all that external support, should be a walk in the park.

justsomehnguy 4y ago

> With all those advantages But without all that intel from US and NATO, including almost real-time satellite data and location of high value targets. >> “We did not provide Ukraine with specific targeting information for the Moskva,” "Don't look at LAT XXX LOG YYY, don't send drones there, don't have some missiles ready" [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/05/us-intelligence-helping-ukraine-kill-russian-generals-report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/05/us-intelligenc... [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/05/11/ukraine-us-intelligence-sharing-war/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/05/11/...