4 ms·

So why does it make so much sense for you to ask someone to spend an average of 66 hours a week of their time to make $28k, when I spent about 44 hours a week t

So why does it make so much sense for you to ask someone to spend an average of 66 hours a week of their time to make $28k, when I spent about 44 hours a week to make $43k? Why did you include commute time in their payment, and exclude it in yours? I'm not sure what you're doing, but even in my summer internship I spent a good 10-11 hours a day, excluding commute time working. I wasn't even paid hourly. Most of my friends working proper jobs, in finance and tech spend at least 10 hours a day working - usually more.

nknight 15y ago
I feel truly sorry for you. That's not normal, and it's sad that you think it is. It's also generally illegal, both in the US and Canada, if you're doing it for one employer and not getting time and a half. Good employers insist you not work those kinds of hours to begin with, they know it does not increase productivity in the long run, in fact having the opposite effect, and leads to burnout and health problems. At best, you are accomplishing nothing working those hours regularly. At worst, you are seriously harming your long-term health. Edit: By the way, Statistics Canada provides some numbers you should look at: http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr81a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr81a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr82-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr82-eng.htm
- AgentConundrum 15y ago
  > At worst, you are seriously harming your long-term health. Not even long-term health. This can affect you quicker than you might think. During one particular crunch time, I was working long hours on a regular basis (crunch time here being "after the project had continued years after it's originally scheduled end date, we were given a hard deadline a few months in the future, so everything was a "crunch" until then). I wasn't sleeping right, and one morning I came in looking like hell. My boss - my nice boss, anyway - diverted us when we went for our morning coffee. He took me to the pharmacy instead, and bought me a bottle of Valerian pills. If that isn't a warning sign, I don't know what is. Also, I ended up on a stress leave for a couple weeks after a while. Without the constant pressure of work, my body finally relaxed. When it did, I ended up getting strep throat and general body aches. It could be coincidence, but I tend to think that I worked myself so hard that I actually compromised my own immune system. I don't have a problem working long hours over short periods of time when it's properly needed, but I won't ever let myself work a job where that's the norm for extended periods of time (or, god forbid, all the time) again.
AgentConundrum 15y ago
> Why did you include commute time in their payment, and exclude it in yours? I didn't. I used myself as the example, explaining that because I could afford better accommodations, specifically an apartment close to work, that my travel time was minimized. My point there was that lower income workers can't afford to be as selective in where they live as can workers with a higher income, and that they are more reliant on cheaper, yet less time-efficient, modes of travel. Having said that, I will admit that by using my situation as the example, I may have biased the analogy a bit. I overestimated the average travel time for lower income workers, and underestimated the average travel time for higher income workers. While I think it's important to note the variable of travel time, it was possibly unfair to include it in the summation. I can't speak to your example, because I don't think I'd stay in a job where 50-55 hour weeks were the norm. Overtime is fine when it's used properly, but there's a reason they call it a "9-5" job. If you go beyond that, you'll get burned out and be less efficient. Americans do seem to have a different view on working than do other countries, even compared to Canadians like me, so this could just be a cultural difference. I don't think it is though, even in the States. I can't think of any of my friends or family - an admittedly small data set - who work more than a 40 hour week on average. In Canada, I believe there are legal protections, at least in some provinces, which prevent you from working too much without adequate compensation (e.g. time and a half for hours over 40, double time for holidays, etc.) I sometimes had to work more than 40 for "straight pay", but that was apparently due to loopholes for salaried and/or on-call employees.

nknight 15y ago

I feel truly sorry for you. That's not normal, and it's sad that you think it is. It's also generally illegal, both in the US and Canada, if you're doing it for one employer and not getting time and a half. Good employers insist you not work those kinds of hours to begin with, they know it does not increase productivity in the long run, in fact having the opposite effect, and leads to burnout and health problems. At best, you are accomplishing nothing working those hours regularly. At worst, you are seriously harming your long-term health. Edit: By the way, Statistics Canada provides some numbers you should look at: http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr81a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr81a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr82-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr82-eng.htm

AgentConundrum 15y ago
> At worst, you are seriously harming your long-term health. Not even long-term health. This can affect you quicker than you might think. During one particular crunch time, I was working long hours on a regular basis (crunch time here being "after the project had continued years after it's originally scheduled end date, we were given a hard deadline a few months in the future, so everything was a "crunch" until then). I wasn't sleeping right, and one morning I came in looking like hell. My boss - my nice boss, anyway - diverted us when we went for our morning coffee. He took me to the pharmacy instead, and bought me a bottle of Valerian pills. If that isn't a warning sign, I don't know what is. Also, I ended up on a stress leave for a couple weeks after a while. Without the constant pressure of work, my body finally relaxed. When it did, I ended up getting strep throat and general body aches. It could be coincidence, but I tend to think that I worked myself so hard that I actually compromised my own immune system. I don't have a problem working long hours over short periods of time when it's properly needed, but I won't ever let myself work a job where that's the norm for extended periods of time (or, god forbid, all the time) again.

AgentConundrum 15y ago

> Why did you include commute time in their payment, and exclude it in yours? I didn't. I used myself as the example, explaining that because I could afford better accommodations, specifically an apartment close to work, that my travel time was minimized. My point there was that lower income workers can't afford to be as selective in where they live as can workers with a higher income, and that they are more reliant on cheaper, yet less time-efficient, modes of travel. Having said that, I will admit that by using my situation as the example, I may have biased the analogy a bit. I overestimated the average travel time for lower income workers, and underestimated the average travel time for higher income workers. While I think it's important to note the variable of travel time, it was possibly unfair to include it in the summation. I can't speak to your example, because I don't think I'd stay in a job where 50-55 hour weeks were the norm. Overtime is fine when it's used properly, but there's a reason they call it a "9-5" job. If you go beyond that, you'll get burned out and be less efficient. Americans do seem to have a different view on working than do other countries, even compared to Canadians like me, so this could just be a cultural difference. I don't think it is though, even in the States. I can't think of any of my friends or family - an admittedly small data set - who work more than a 40 hour week on average. In Canada, I believe there are legal protections, at least in some provinces, which prevent you from working too much without adequate compensation (e.g. time and a half for hours over 40, double time for holidays, etc.) I sometimes had to work more than 40 for "straight pay", but that was apparently due to loopholes for salaried and/or on-call employees.