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They may have expected support from citizens in Eastern Ukraine where there has been a war going on for years, but I have yet to hear concrete evidence that thi

by cudgy 4y ago

They may have expected support from citizens in Eastern Ukraine where there has been a war going on for years, but I have yet to hear concrete evidence that this was expected throughout Ukraine. Also, captured soldiers will say anything under duress, and I have yet to see a verifiable survey of captured soldiers. Relying on The words of a few soldiers is nonsense.

scrollaway 4y ago
It’s very much a fact, though. Before the war started, my girlfriend (Ukrainian) said she figured that if Russian soldiers came, Ukraine would just let them in in peace. She didn’t expect Russia to go ahead with an invasion in the first place, and didn’t realise war was what would be involved. Her attitude obviously very quickly changed when she saw her country was fighting back, morale is an important component of this. It was always delusional to think west Ukraine would welcome Russia, but east Ukraine had been consuming a LOT of Russian propaganda up to the war. And when we talk about eastern Ukraine we aren’t talking about the bordering cities currently suffering heavy occupation, we are talking about the entire eastern half. If Ukrainians themselves were thinking it, there is no question soldiers were as well. You may have seen comms of dead Russian soldiers in the early days of the war talking about this, including a sms conversation that got famous when being read out at the EU parliament.
- cudgy 4y ago
  > It’s very much a fact, though. > my girlfriend (Ukrainian) said > comms of <some> dead Russian soldiers in the early days of the war talking about this, > including a sms conversation So a girlfriend, some comms, and an sms conversation prove the attitude and expectations of an entire military force and their leaders?
watwut 4y ago
If you are determined to not believe all the report, why asking? This point came up from all sides - from soldiers, from putin, from spies inside Russia, from political observers of Russia. It is literally one of complaints against FSB - they claimed support for Russia in Ukraine is high and that they build up collaborators. But, if you are determined to not believe, because I dont know why ...
- cudgy 4y ago
  It’s simply a “point” brought up by a few people with little concrete evidence to prove it. I find this type of journalism to be closer to a gossip column (driven by intelligence agencies and the people that want to believe it is true) rather than a true news story with appropriate facts. The reporting on the Ukraine conflict is borderline pathetic and mostly driven by people that have no idea what is truly happening. Who’s propaganda do you want to believe?
  - watwut 4y ago
    If you discount what soldiers say, what Putin says, what Russian propaganda says and so on as no evidence, then sure.

by cudgy 4y ago

scrollaway 4y ago

It’s very much a fact, though. Before the war started, my girlfriend (Ukrainian) said she figured that if Russian soldiers came, Ukraine would just let them in in peace. She didn’t expect Russia to go ahead with an invasion in the first place, and didn’t realise war was what would be involved. Her attitude obviously very quickly changed when she saw her country was fighting back, morale is an important component of this. It was always delusional to think west Ukraine would welcome Russia, but east Ukraine had been consuming a LOT of Russian propaganda up to the war. And when we talk about eastern Ukraine we aren’t talking about the bordering cities currently suffering heavy occupation, we are talking about the entire eastern half. If Ukrainians themselves were thinking it, there is no question soldiers were as well. You may have seen comms of dead Russian soldiers in the early days of the war talking about this, including a sms conversation that got famous when being read out at the EU parliament.

cudgy 4y ago
> It’s very much a fact, though. > my girlfriend (Ukrainian) said > comms of <some> dead Russian soldiers in the early days of the war talking about this, > including a sms conversation So a girlfriend, some comms, and an sms conversation prove the attitude and expectations of an entire military force and their leaders?

watwut 4y ago

If you are determined to not believe all the report, why asking? This point came up from all sides - from soldiers, from putin, from spies inside Russia, from political observers of Russia. It is literally one of complaints against FSB - they claimed support for Russia in Ukraine is high and that they build up collaborators. But, if you are determined to not believe, because I dont know why ...

cudgy 4y ago
It’s simply a “point” brought up by a few people with little concrete evidence to prove it. I find this type of journalism to be closer to a gossip column (driven by intelligence agencies and the people that want to believe it is true) rather than a true news story with appropriate facts. The reporting on the Ukraine conflict is borderline pathetic and mostly driven by people that have no idea what is truly happening. Who’s propaganda do you want to believe?
- watwut 4y ago
  If you discount what soldiers say, what Putin says, what Russian propaganda says and so on as no evidence, then sure.