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"Who needs bitcoin? Honestly not many people right now." Worldwide, lots of people. There's folks in Venezuela and Zimbabwe who need Bitcoin because their nat

"Who needs bitcoin? Honestly not many people right now." Worldwide, lots of people. There's folks in Venezuela and Zimbabwe who need Bitcoin because their national currencies are hyperinflating. There's folks in El Salvador who need Bitcoin because it is their national currency. There's folks fleeing Ukraine who need Bitcoin because their nation is at risk of being swallowed by a large empire. There's folks in Russia who need Bitcoin because their nation is doing the swallowing and getting cut off from the world financial system as a result. There's folks in China (and other countries) who need Bitcoin because their nation can't be trusted not to interfere with private property and it's good to have a little insurance policy on a thumb drive, piece of paper, or memorized. I think that cryptocurrency is one of those areas where people in the developed world look at their own life experience and think "Who could ever need that?", not realizing that they represent a tiny fraction of humanity and that the experience of most of the rest of the world is dramatically different. I work on a product (Android) with about 3B users. I work on a tiny segment of it (tablets & TVs), with about 12% market share combined, and we're always struggling to get the larger org to invest in developing us. But when you run the numbers, you realize that the 12% of Android users with a tablet or TV is about 340M, more than the entire population of the United States. Similarly, the number of mobile phone users with accessibility needs (largely vision difficulties) is also larger than the population of the United States, yet it's awfully hard to get people to consider screen readers and assistive technologies when developing. Americans in general are wildly unaware of what a tiny percentage of humanity they are (for reference: about 4%), and this comes up over and over again in HN threads.

scoofy 4y ago
You are talking about storing wealth. There were already myriad ways to store wealth before bitcoin. Precious metals, jewelry, property, etc., bitcoin is not needed like wheat is for vodka. It is just one way of many for doing the things you describe. I'm not saying bitcoin is going to zero. In these threads, i've always said bitcoin has perfectly reasonable use cases, but if we're being honest not many people really need to use bitcoin, and yes, i'm saying, in the the grand scheme of things, the population of El Salvador is not many people. It will probably not become the de facto unit of exchange in our lifetime, or ever. I'm not talking about bitcoin is a vehicle for temporarily transferring wealth from one asset to another, i actually think it's pretty useful for that, i'm talking about bitcoin as a vehicle for investment... which is why the lion's share of people have been buying it in the last decade.
aljg 4y ago
What percentage of your examples would not be wildly better served by owning USD? Maybe China? Certainly Venezuela, Zimbabwe, El Salvador, and other countries around the globe already use USD as a de facto currency. Heck, in Zimbabwe and El Salvador it's de jure as well! To be fair, China is a big chunk of the global population already. But crypto enthusiasts are wildly unaware of what little use it actually has. It comes up over and over again in HN threads and on Twitter.
epidemian 4y ago
Hello, i'm from a country which is going through rapid inflation (>50% annually). It's true that people here need either an alternative currency for purchasing foreign goods (access to USD or other currencies is restricted, and customs fees are insane), or an alternative asset for keeping the value of their savings. But it's not true that people need Bitcoin. As a currency for purchasing things, Bitcoin is useless. People here are better off evading customs taxes (smuggling), and purchasing via USDs bought on the black market. And for keeping the value of their savings, again, people usually turn to USDs. Some people have speculated with BTC and other cryptocurrencies, yeah, but this is not so much for savings, but more for greedy speculation. And it's not like the USD is important on itself, it's just an intermediate goal for something else. If the USD becomes too unstable or loses much of its value, people here will turn to other stronger foreign currencies. So, imagine what this means in the context of what your parent comment said: that Bitcoin's ledger being trivially replaceable. No, Bitcoin is not needed here. Not at the moment at least. And if it is in the future, so be it, but so can be any other crypto or alternative currency. Who can predict which it will be (if any)? I don't see how betting on future Bitcoin's value for countries like mine makes any sense when there nothing inherent about Bitcoin that would make more valuable than any other alternative currency.
Ekaros 4y ago
So why is it needed and used outside those situations? Like let's say Euro-zone and USA? Seemingly extremely stable currencies, with SEPA absolutely superior user experience if costs are considered. Do those listed markets really support the value we see?
dghlsakjg 4y ago
Just fyi, The Ukrainian Hryvni is only down about 10% since the war started. The Ruble is actually up 10% (these are all quotes on open markets, not ones controlled by governments) Bitcoin is down more than 30% in that time. It has a short history with incredible volatility and is very illiquid in a bad situation. Government currencies aren’t the best when controlled by tyrants, bur crypto isn’t ready for global adoption yet. Would you park your GTFO money in a commodity that can be destroyed by an Elon Musk tweet?

scoofy 4y ago

You are talking about storing wealth. There were already myriad ways to store wealth before bitcoin. Precious metals, jewelry, property, etc., bitcoin is not needed like wheat is for vodka. It is just one way of many for doing the things you describe. I'm not saying bitcoin is going to zero. In these threads, i've always said bitcoin has perfectly reasonable use cases, but if we're being honest not many people really need to use bitcoin, and yes, i'm saying, in the the grand scheme of things, the population of El Salvador is not many people. It will probably not become the de facto unit of exchange in our lifetime, or ever. I'm not talking about bitcoin is a vehicle for temporarily transferring wealth from one asset to another, i actually think it's pretty useful for that, i'm talking about bitcoin as a vehicle for investment... which is why the lion's share of people have been buying it in the last decade.

aljg 4y ago

What percentage of your examples would not be wildly better served by owning USD? Maybe China? Certainly Venezuela, Zimbabwe, El Salvador, and other countries around the globe already use USD as a de facto currency. Heck, in Zimbabwe and El Salvador it's de jure as well! To be fair, China is a big chunk of the global population already. But crypto enthusiasts are wildly unaware of what little use it actually has. It comes up over and over again in HN threads and on Twitter.

epidemian 4y ago

Hello, i'm from a country which is going through rapid inflation (>50% annually). It's true that people here need either an alternative currency for purchasing foreign goods (access to USD or other currencies is restricted, and customs fees are insane), or an alternative asset for keeping the value of their savings. But it's not true that people need Bitcoin. As a currency for purchasing things, Bitcoin is useless. People here are better off evading customs taxes (smuggling), and purchasing via USDs bought on the black market. And for keeping the value of their savings, again, people usually turn to USDs. Some people have speculated with BTC and other cryptocurrencies, yeah, but this is not so much for savings, but more for greedy speculation. And it's not like the USD is important on itself, it's just an intermediate goal for something else. If the USD becomes too unstable or loses much of its value, people here will turn to other stronger foreign currencies. So, imagine what this means in the context of what your parent comment said: that Bitcoin's ledger being trivially replaceable. No, Bitcoin is not needed here. Not at the moment at least. And if it is in the future, so be it, but so can be any other crypto or alternative currency. Who can predict which it will be (if any)? I don't see how betting on future Bitcoin's value for countries like mine makes any sense when there nothing inherent about Bitcoin that would make more valuable than any other alternative currency.

Ekaros 4y ago

So why is it needed and used outside those situations? Like let's say Euro-zone and USA? Seemingly extremely stable currencies, with SEPA absolutely superior user experience if costs are considered. Do those listed markets really support the value we see?

dghlsakjg 4y ago

Just fyi, The Ukrainian Hryvni is only down about 10% since the war started. The Ruble is actually up 10% (these are all quotes on open markets, not ones controlled by governments) Bitcoin is down more than 30% in that time. It has a short history with incredible volatility and is very illiquid in a bad situation. Government currencies aren’t the best when controlled by tyrants, bur crypto isn’t ready for global adoption yet. Would you park your GTFO money in a commodity that can be destroyed by an Elon Musk tweet?