4 ms·

Who cares if they can do the job. Someone who has a resume with accomplishments means that person has a proven record of getting the job done. Not being able

by ipaddr 4y ago

Who cares if they can do the job. Someone who has a resume with accomplishments means that person has a proven record of getting the job done. Not being able to do a FAANG FizzBuzz has no relationship to their ability to get the job done. You never hired these people so you have no idea how they would do either. Have you ever heard of someone hiring a surgeon by giving them an over ripe orange and a plastic knife and asking them to cut out every 2nd segment without getting any juice on the table?

necubi 4y ago
Surgeons have to do a 7 year residency before they get hired. There's nothing remotely comparable for software engineers.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > Surgeons have to do a 7 year residency before they get hired. There's nothing remotely comparable for software engineers. Yet software engineers with 7 years of experience are still assumed to be fakers.
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    Well there are reputable institutions who will vouch for the surgeons experience. Literally anyone can put that they have 7 years experience as a software developer on their cv
    - lapcat 4y ago
      There are reputable institutions who will vouch for the software engineer's experience, namely their previous employers. You can verify previous employment. The previous employer might not say anything else about the candidate, but they can certainly verify that the CV is not just invented.
    - jjav 4y ago
      > Well there are reputable institutions who will vouch for the surgeons experience. Literally anyone can put that they have 7 years experience as a software developer on their cv The reputable institution is called their previous employer(s). If someone has worked for a recognized company for 7 years writing production code, that's the same as the surgeon having done those 7 years in a reputable hospital.
ryandrake 4y ago
I think OP is talking about people who literally can't code, yet list a track record of 10 years successfully writing C++ code on their resume. And you need someone who can write code--not someone who can write about their coding accomplishments. We've all had that experience of reading someone's resume full of accomplishments that would have required the candidate to write code, then sitting down with them and they can't even come up with a for loop.
- jjav 4y ago
  > I think OP is talking about people who literally can't code, yet list a track record of 10 years successfully writing C++ code on their resume. > then sitting down with them and they can't even come up with a for loop If someone has been writing succesful production code in C++ for ten years, there is zero possibility they can't write a for loop. I hope you do realize that is not actually possible. What is extremely likely, is that they get subjected to a random algorithm memorization puzzle question for something they've never seen before under the extreme stress of an interview and then the interviewer extrapolates from that to assume "they can't write a for loop".
popularonion 4y ago
> Someone who has a resume with accomplishments means that person has a proven record of getting the job done. This sounds good, but experience has taught me it’s just not true. It’s so easy to claim credit for accomplishments where other people did 90% of the work. And in a big company it takes about 2 years for a bad hire to get pushed out, if they ever are.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > And in a big company it takes about 2 years for a bad hire to get pushed out, if they ever are. Two wrongs don't make a right. I wish that engineers would spend half as much time trying to correct the organizational dysfunction of their companies as they do on leetcode and the like. The tech industry that likes to brag about "innovation" and "disruption" seems very conservative and resistant to change as far as hiring is concerned. Everyone seems complacent about that and stuck in the status quo. Then they complain about a talent shortage...
vsareto 4y ago
Surgeons are vetted way beforehand by tests that are way harder and way more stressful than any engineering interview round. They also possess a widely recognized credential from (usually) reputable schools. Software doesn't have anything close to a surgeon's credentials as far as wide recognition/acceptance and rigor go. I would love a widely recognized and rigorous credential that I could study for and work towards if it meant I never had to do another technical interview again. They can be less rigorous than surgeons since we're not saving lives, obviously.
- polalavik 4y ago
  FAANG is basically that yet they all interview each other’s employees still. Why can’t anyone trust verifiable information - that you worked for $COMPANY in some $JOB. Why is all job experience and why are all credentials thrown out the window when you apply, for the most part.

by ipaddr 4y ago

necubi 4y ago

Surgeons have to do a 7 year residency before they get hired. There's nothing remotely comparable for software engineers.

lapcat 4y ago
> Surgeons have to do a 7 year residency before they get hired. There's nothing remotely comparable for software engineers. Yet software engineers with 7 years of experience are still assumed to be fakers.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  Well there are reputable institutions who will vouch for the surgeons experience. Literally anyone can put that they have 7 years experience as a software developer on their cv
  - lapcat 4y ago
    There are reputable institutions who will vouch for the software engineer's experience, namely their previous employers. You can verify previous employment. The previous employer might not say anything else about the candidate, but they can certainly verify that the CV is not just invented.
  - jjav 4y ago
    > Well there are reputable institutions who will vouch for the surgeons experience. Literally anyone can put that they have 7 years experience as a software developer on their cv The reputable institution is called their previous employer(s). If someone has worked for a recognized company for 7 years writing production code, that's the same as the surgeon having done those 7 years in a reputable hospital.

ryandrake 4y ago

I think OP is talking about people who literally can't code, yet list a track record of 10 years successfully writing C++ code on their resume. And you need someone who can write code--not someone who can write about their coding accomplishments. We've all had that experience of reading someone's resume full of accomplishments that would have required the candidate to write code, then sitting down with them and they can't even come up with a for loop.

jjav 4y ago
> I think OP is talking about people who literally can't code, yet list a track record of 10 years successfully writing C++ code on their resume. > then sitting down with them and they can't even come up with a for loop If someone has been writing succesful production code in C++ for ten years, there is zero possibility they can't write a for loop. I hope you do realize that is not actually possible. What is extremely likely, is that they get subjected to a random algorithm memorization puzzle question for something they've never seen before under the extreme stress of an interview and then the interviewer extrapolates from that to assume "they can't write a for loop".

popularonion 4y ago

> Someone who has a resume with accomplishments means that person has a proven record of getting the job done. This sounds good, but experience has taught me it’s just not true. It’s so easy to claim credit for accomplishments where other people did 90% of the work. And in a big company it takes about 2 years for a bad hire to get pushed out, if they ever are.

lapcat 4y ago
> And in a big company it takes about 2 years for a bad hire to get pushed out, if they ever are. Two wrongs don't make a right. I wish that engineers would spend half as much time trying to correct the organizational dysfunction of their companies as they do on leetcode and the like. The tech industry that likes to brag about "innovation" and "disruption" seems very conservative and resistant to change as far as hiring is concerned. Everyone seems complacent about that and stuck in the status quo. Then they complain about a talent shortage...

vsareto 4y ago

Surgeons are vetted way beforehand by tests that are way harder and way more stressful than any engineering interview round. They also possess a widely recognized credential from (usually) reputable schools. Software doesn't have anything close to a surgeon's credentials as far as wide recognition/acceptance and rigor go. I would love a widely recognized and rigorous credential that I could study for and work towards if it meant I never had to do another technical interview again. They can be less rigorous than surgeons since we're not saving lives, obviously.

polalavik 4y ago
FAANG is basically that yet they all interview each other’s employees still. Why can’t anyone trust verifiable information - that you worked for $COMPANY in some $JOB. Why is all job experience and why are all credentials thrown out the window when you apply, for the most part.