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I find it horrific because these children are having healthy body parts removed in order to alleviate a mental health issue. If I heard that a 13 year old chil

I find it horrific because these children are having healthy body parts removed in order to alleviate a mental health issue. If I heard that a 13 year old child with body integrity identity disorder had their perfectly healthy hands amputated, I'd be similarly horrified. And very concerned about how the parents enabled it, and that there is some rogue surgeon out there who decided to inflict this on a child. Even more so if that surgeon posted photos on social media showing off the child's mutilated stumps, with cute little slogans encouraging other children to get the same done to them, like what that gender affirmation surgeon in the article I posted does. There are some chilling parallels with the lobotomy craze of the 1940s and 50s. Most people will likely look back on this period of medical malpractice in horror as well, in the years to come.

foxyv 4y ago
The problem here is you are comparing apples to oranges when there are much better comparisons available. You pick lobotomies and amputations when there are much closer parallels. Gender affirming therapies are as close to these as a cleft palate correction or plastic surgery for congenital defects. In addition, why is surgery less necessary for the mental health of transgender kids than cisgender kids? For instance, in cases of gynecomastia in Klinefelter males would you be horrified by surgical and hormonal intervention in a 16 year old natal boy with breasts? Why is this any different from a transgender boy? Would you force a cisgender boy to grow up with female sexual characteristics until they were 18? What about a cisgender girl who suddenly grows a beard because of an androgen disorder? Should we not prescribe hormone blockers and surgically address the source of testosterone? How is this different from transgender girls receiving the exact same treatment? What if those cisgender girls are actually transgender? Should we "Wait and See" if they will change their minds later in case they regret it? These attempts at false equivalence between transition related care and barbaric practices from the 1940s is specious at best and deliberately malicious at worst.
- margineyes 4y ago
  I'm comparing apples to apples. Both gender dysphoria and body integrity identity disorder are mental health conditions where the sufferer seeks to have healthy body parts altered or removed. But only gender dysphoria somehow gets the green light for actual irreversible body modification, including on children. I mean, I'd hope you wouldn't support lopping off a 13 year old girl's arm because she said she feels like her 'true self' is a disabled amputee. Having the same done to her breasts because she thinks she should be a boy is no different really. These are children who haven't finished, or maybe even started, puberty yet, a time of much natural bodily change. They inherently cannot understand the full implications of what they're asking for, in a way that competent adults may be able to. The other key thing is, most children who report feelings of gender dysphoria will desist if they don't undergo transition. With watchful waiting, letting the child go through puberty normally and become an adult, instead of medical or surgical interventions, the problem usually resolves itself. Your comparison to cleft palate surgery is not sensible, this is to correct a physical birth defect that impairs function. Feeding and speech and so on. If a girl suddenly grows a beard, and it's a symptom of an androgen disorder, then yes she should receive medical treatment. Because she is female and her body isn't supposed to be producing androgens in those quantities. Again this is a physical health problem where there is an actual defective condition in the body, not a mental health issue like gender dysphoria or body integrity identity disorder where the subject just thinks there's something wrong with their body. The parallels with lobotomy are really quite disconcerting. For example, lobotomy was sometimes inflicted as an attempt to 'correct' homosexuality. Some parents who have encouraged their child down the transgender path are on record as saying essentially the same thing. As have whistleblower clinicians at the UK's largest gender identity clinic.

foxyv 4y ago

The problem here is you are comparing apples to oranges when there are much better comparisons available. You pick lobotomies and amputations when there are much closer parallels. Gender affirming therapies are as close to these as a cleft palate correction or plastic surgery for congenital defects. In addition, why is surgery less necessary for the mental health of transgender kids than cisgender kids? For instance, in cases of gynecomastia in Klinefelter males would you be horrified by surgical and hormonal intervention in a 16 year old natal boy with breasts? Why is this any different from a transgender boy? Would you force a cisgender boy to grow up with female sexual characteristics until they were 18? What about a cisgender girl who suddenly grows a beard because of an androgen disorder? Should we not prescribe hormone blockers and surgically address the source of testosterone? How is this different from transgender girls receiving the exact same treatment? What if those cisgender girls are actually transgender? Should we "Wait and See" if they will change their minds later in case they regret it? These attempts at false equivalence between transition related care and barbaric practices from the 1940s is specious at best and deliberately malicious at worst.

margineyes 4y ago
I'm comparing apples to apples. Both gender dysphoria and body integrity identity disorder are mental health conditions where the sufferer seeks to have healthy body parts altered or removed. But only gender dysphoria somehow gets the green light for actual irreversible body modification, including on children. I mean, I'd hope you wouldn't support lopping off a 13 year old girl's arm because she said she feels like her 'true self' is a disabled amputee. Having the same done to her breasts because she thinks she should be a boy is no different really. These are children who haven't finished, or maybe even started, puberty yet, a time of much natural bodily change. They inherently cannot understand the full implications of what they're asking for, in a way that competent adults may be able to. The other key thing is, most children who report feelings of gender dysphoria will desist if they don't undergo transition. With watchful waiting, letting the child go through puberty normally and become an adult, instead of medical or surgical interventions, the problem usually resolves itself. Your comparison to cleft palate surgery is not sensible, this is to correct a physical birth defect that impairs function. Feeding and speech and so on. If a girl suddenly grows a beard, and it's a symptom of an androgen disorder, then yes she should receive medical treatment. Because she is female and her body isn't supposed to be producing androgens in those quantities. Again this is a physical health problem where there is an actual defective condition in the body, not a mental health issue like gender dysphoria or body integrity identity disorder where the subject just thinks there's something wrong with their body. The parallels with lobotomy are really quite disconcerting. For example, lobotomy was sometimes inflicted as an attempt to 'correct' homosexuality. Some parents who have encouraged their child down the transgender path are on record as saying essentially the same thing. As have whistleblower clinicians at the UK's largest gender identity clinic.