5 ms·

Drivers Can’t Stop Crashing on This Highway Exit in Seattle

30 points by ourmandave 4y ago

etempleton 4y ago
The drivers involved in those accidents are unaware that it is going to drop them off at a red light. They presume the speed warning is because of how sharp the curve is and accelerate out of the curve before realizing that they need to come to a complete stop immediately. Perhaps a warning about the intersection and traffic light would be more valuable to drivers who are navigating out of the ramp to fast.
- filoleg 4y ago
  I think you are right, but the highway exit itself is very narrow and is just difficult to drive through at high speed in the first place, which definitely pressures the drivers to slow down. So I have zero idea why this keeps happening. I take that specific exit quite often, and I've never seen people speeding through it (despite seeing it plenty on other hwy ramps and doing so myself quite often at other highway ramps). I agree with you overall though, it is definitely a very abrupt traffic light/intersection that you get to pretty much instantly as soon as you take the turn through the exit. And you have no way of seeing that traffic light/intersection ahead of time, because it only becomes visible after you take that turn. For those trying to visualize this, here is the GMaps streetview of that exact location[0]. Turn around in the opposite direction to see the actual hwy exit tunnel from where the cars are coming from. EDIT: watching the youtube video in the article, it seems like the red car was already scraping the sidewalk and the wall as it was getting out of the tunnel, far before even reaching the intersection. Not saying this about other incidents in the video, but this specific one imo had nothing to do with the intersection/exit tunnel design. 0. https://goo.gl/maps/rZwyu2x76q9EAnnV7 https://goo.gl/maps/rZwyu2x76q9EAnnV7
- neuralRiot 4y ago
  > The drivers involved in those accidents are unaware that it is going to drop them off at a red light. Probably the “traffic light ahead”, the multiple “sharp turn” and 25mph signs probably should give them a clue.
  - zardo 4y ago
    For these drivers, I think it's a clue they're about to hit a fun corner to drive at 50mph.
    - etempleton 4y ago
      Agreed. Not saying the drivers are not at fault. They are just seeing the corner as a fun spot to play Ridge Racer not realizing they are going to have to immediately brake after the corner.
  - carlmr 4y ago
    Don't know the area, but the problem usually is that you see a lot of similar signs in places where it's not needed. So the warning is not very salient. You have to design with human psychology in mind. And the boy that cried wolf is a parable that also holds for traffic signs.
piinbinary 4y ago
If one person crashes, they messed up. If a bunch of people crash, the designers messed up.
- rasz 4y ago
  or system of doing license exam by driving around the school block is actually a failure and produces people not able to drive safely.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    We aren't trying to produce safe drivers because any serious gatekeeping of driving will strangle the country when half of it's citizens can't go anywhere or do anything because they can't drive
    - InitialLastName 4y ago
      There's a chicken and egg here: Plenty of places make it perfectly possible to thrive without a car. The US decided (with plenty of support from the auto industry) that the convenience of building cities around cars was worth all the death, destruction, illness and poverty they cause/enable.
- rdtwo 4y ago
  That exit looks like a regular highway off-ramp with what should be a long smooth transition but abruptly stops at a red light after the corner. Not surprisingly this happens.
- adamredwoods 4y ago
  It's both. Also, don't put a major highway under a convention center.
  - themadturk 4y ago
    Actually, I think it might be the other way around...don't put a convention center over a major highway. The freeway through downtown Seattle was built in the mid-60s, the convention center twenty years later.
bruceb 4y ago
To get a fully accurate picture, one would have to know the average crashes for each exit. Some context this exit is for the Washington Convention Center and closest one to get to Pike Place Market. The video in the story showing a first person perspective exiting is slightly misleading (not saying intentionally). To take this exit, one is traveling southbound and has to get over into the lane that is also a lane people who are coming on to the freeway are taking. This often slows one down as you have to often negotiate getting to that lane while someone in that lane is trying to get into your lane. Most of the time one isn't going 60 and then going slightly right to get off. What is happening is some people are speeding up in the exit, not failing to decease speed.
- amscanne 4y ago
  The rest of the lanes are also often moving slowly through that section just due to traffic volume. This is what happened in that video: the driver accelerated slightly and started passing cars once in the exit lane (nothing to do with negotiating with entering cars). If this theory is correct, then presumably you’d want the exit lane to be shorter. However, it did seem like many crashes were at night, which wouldn’t have this problem. Maybe there are just edge cases either way, and the near immediate stop light creates an situation that can’t be mitigated.
Ekaros 4y ago
Even earlier speed limits and speed cameras. Seems simple enough. And maybe some speed bumbs.
Fargoan 4y ago
I used to drive there all the time. I didn't know anyone had a problem with it.
leephillips 4y ago
Looks like a perfectly tame and normal exit with more than sufficient warning signage. The drivers are idiots.
- treyfitty 4y ago
  If it happens a few times, sure, signs work. If it happens more, it’s clearly a road design problem.
iamevn 4y ago
In my opinion something I don't have the words for about the design of this section of road makes it feel like it should be drivable at 40mph despite the warnings. I've messed this turn up once and needed to brake hard but wasn't anywhere near the accidents in the videos and now that I know what to expect I've never had another issue. Another exciting feature on the other side of the divide there is this[1] on ramp onto northbound i5 that dumps you into the left lane almost directly across from exit 166 on the other side of 4 lanes of freeway. At some point probably around 5 years ago Google Maps directed me to take this on ramp and cross 4 lanes to get to exit 166 which was a fun experience I don't ever need to repeat. I'm currently unable to convince Google Maps to take this route so something was fixed since then. [1]: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6130802,-122.3302303,3a,75y,41.13h,63.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3bA7NrBg2EUwXgz-aml1JA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6130802,-122.3302303,3a,75y,...
cyanydeez 4y ago
I live next to a straight off ramp into a light, and has a one way intersection with two turn lanes off a bridge. People just cruise through that intersection from the highway and once a year there's a blind left turn and highway speeder collision. It got worse when a shrubbery occluded the left turn line of site.

30 points by ourmandave 4y ago

The drivers involved in those accidents are unaware that it is going to drop them off at a red light. They presume the speed warning is because of how sharp the curve is and accelerate out of the curve before realizing that they need to come to a complete stop immediately. Perhaps a warning about the intersection and traffic light would be more valuable to drivers who are navigating out of the ramp to fast.

filoleg 4y ago
I think you are right, but the highway exit itself is very narrow and is just difficult to drive through at high speed in the first place, which definitely pressures the drivers to slow down. So I have zero idea why this keeps happening. I take that specific exit quite often, and I've never seen people speeding through it (despite seeing it plenty on other hwy ramps and doing so myself quite often at other highway ramps). I agree with you overall though, it is definitely a very abrupt traffic light/intersection that you get to pretty much instantly as soon as you take the turn through the exit. And you have no way of seeing that traffic light/intersection ahead of time, because it only becomes visible after you take that turn. For those trying to visualize this, here is the GMaps streetview of that exact location[0]. Turn around in the opposite direction to see the actual hwy exit tunnel from where the cars are coming from. EDIT: watching the youtube video in the article, it seems like the red car was already scraping the sidewalk and the wall as it was getting out of the tunnel, far before even reaching the intersection. Not saying this about other incidents in the video, but this specific one imo had nothing to do with the intersection/exit tunnel design. 0. https://goo.gl/maps/rZwyu2x76q9EAnnV7 https://goo.gl/maps/rZwyu2x76q9EAnnV7
neuralRiot 4y ago
> The drivers involved in those accidents are unaware that it is going to drop them off at a red light. Probably the “traffic light ahead”, the multiple “sharp turn” and 25mph signs probably should give them a clue.
- zardo 4y ago
  For these drivers, I think it's a clue they're about to hit a fun corner to drive at 50mph.
  - etempleton 4y ago
    Agreed. Not saying the drivers are not at fault. They are just seeing the corner as a fun spot to play Ridge Racer not realizing they are going to have to immediately brake after the corner.
- carlmr 4y ago
  Don't know the area, but the problem usually is that you see a lot of similar signs in places where it's not needed. So the warning is not very salient. You have to design with human psychology in mind. And the boy that cried wolf is a parable that also holds for traffic signs.

piinbinary 4y ago

If one person crashes, they messed up. If a bunch of people crash, the designers messed up.

rasz 4y ago
or system of doing license exam by driving around the school block is actually a failure and produces people not able to drive safely.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  We aren't trying to produce safe drivers because any serious gatekeeping of driving will strangle the country when half of it's citizens can't go anywhere or do anything because they can't drive
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    There's a chicken and egg here: Plenty of places make it perfectly possible to thrive without a car. The US decided (with plenty of support from the auto industry) that the convenience of building cities around cars was worth all the death, destruction, illness and poverty they cause/enable.
rdtwo 4y ago
That exit looks like a regular highway off-ramp with what should be a long smooth transition but abruptly stops at a red light after the corner. Not surprisingly this happens.
adamredwoods 4y ago
It's both. Also, don't put a major highway under a convention center.
- themadturk 4y ago
  Actually, I think it might be the other way around...don't put a convention center over a major highway. The freeway through downtown Seattle was built in the mid-60s, the convention center twenty years later.

bruceb 4y ago

To get a fully accurate picture, one would have to know the average crashes for each exit. Some context this exit is for the Washington Convention Center and closest one to get to Pike Place Market. The video in the story showing a first person perspective exiting is slightly misleading (not saying intentionally). To take this exit, one is traveling southbound and has to get over into the lane that is also a lane people who are coming on to the freeway are taking. This often slows one down as you have to often negotiate getting to that lane while someone in that lane is trying to get into your lane. Most of the time one isn't going 60 and then going slightly right to get off. What is happening is some people are speeding up in the exit, not failing to decease speed.

amscanne 4y ago
The rest of the lanes are also often moving slowly through that section just due to traffic volume. This is what happened in that video: the driver accelerated slightly and started passing cars once in the exit lane (nothing to do with negotiating with entering cars). If this theory is correct, then presumably you’d want the exit lane to be shorter. However, it did seem like many crashes were at night, which wouldn’t have this problem. Maybe there are just edge cases either way, and the near immediate stop light creates an situation that can’t be mitigated.

Ekaros 4y ago

Even earlier speed limits and speed cameras. Seems simple enough. And maybe some speed bumbs.

Fargoan 4y ago

I used to drive there all the time. I didn't know anyone had a problem with it.

leephillips 4y ago

Looks like a perfectly tame and normal exit with more than sufficient warning signage. The drivers are idiots.

treyfitty 4y ago
If it happens a few times, sure, signs work. If it happens more, it’s clearly a road design problem.

iamevn 4y ago

In my opinion something I don't have the words for about the design of this section of road makes it feel like it should be drivable at 40mph despite the warnings. I've messed this turn up once and needed to brake hard but wasn't anywhere near the accidents in the videos and now that I know what to expect I've never had another issue. Another exciting feature on the other side of the divide there is this[1] on ramp onto northbound i5 that dumps you into the left lane almost directly across from exit 166 on the other side of 4 lanes of freeway. At some point probably around 5 years ago Google Maps directed me to take this on ramp and cross 4 lanes to get to exit 166 which was a fun experience I don't ever need to repeat. I'm currently unable to convince Google Maps to take this route so something was fixed since then. [1]: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6130802,-122.3302303,3a,75y,41.13h,63.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3bA7NrBg2EUwXgz-aml1JA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6130802,-122.3302303,3a,75y,...

cyanydeez 4y ago

I live next to a straight off ramp into a light, and has a one way intersection with two turn lanes off a bridge. People just cruise through that intersection from the highway and once a year there's a blind left turn and highway speeder collision. It got worse when a shrubbery occluded the left turn line of site.