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Ammonia and plastics are the toughest ones to replace by far, as they rely on what the fossil fuels are rather than just on the energy they produce (steel and c

by dublin 4y ago

Ammonia and plastics are the toughest ones to replace by far, as they rely on what the fossil fuels are rather than just on the energy they produce (steel and cement). What the hell is China doing with all that concrete, BTW?? That's a truly staggering amount. Just building those ghost cities we hear about? How is that beneficial for anyone except the crooked oligarchs of the CCP?

avmich 4y ago
Always thought ammonia should be an easy problem to solve, given clean energy, 78% nitrogen in the atmosphere and hydrogen from electrolysis. Surely in practice there are some significant problems?.. Plastics are rather different though.
- philipkglass 4y ago
  The problem with using electrolytic hydrogen from clean energy to make ammonia is that fossil fuels are cheaper, at least when they don't have to pay for CO2 emissions. But the technology is well proven at industrial scale. In the 20th century some remote hydroelectric dams used electricity to make ammonia for fertilizer before the grid was fully built out and servicing other demands became more profitable. China operates methanol-to-olefins (plastic building block molecules) plants on a large scale, albeit using fossil-derived methanol: https://www.honeywell.com/us/en/press/2018/03/jiangsu-sailboat-accepts-worlds-largest-single-train-coal-to-chemicals-plant-from-honeywell-uop https://www.honeywell.com/us/en/press/2018/03/jiangsu-sailbo... The Sailboat facility in Lianyungang City in Jiangsu Province manufactures propylene to make acrylonitrile for clothing and fabrics, and high-performance polymers used in automotive parts, hard hats and other hard plastic products. The plant also produces ethylene for ethylene vinyl acetate copolymers that are used to make adhesives, foams, medical devices, photovoltaic cells, and other products, and C4 olefins for butadiene, an ingredient in synthetic rubber. Methanol can be produced by hydrogenating carbon dioxide with renewable hydrogen. Carbon Recycling International has commercially produced methanol that way since 2012: https://www.carbonrecycling.is/ https://www.carbonrecycling.is/ Carbon Recycling International is the globally-recognised leader in CO2 to methanol technology, operating at industrial scale since 2012. We enable our partners to produce renewable methanol from carbon dioxide and hydrogen, for more sustainable fuels, chemicals and products. It's similar to producing ammonia with clean hydrogen. It combines carbon dioxide with hydrogen instead of nitrogen with hydrogen.

by dublin 4y ago

avmich 4y ago

Always thought ammonia should be an easy problem to solve, given clean energy, 78% nitrogen in the atmosphere and hydrogen from electrolysis. Surely in practice there are some significant problems?.. Plastics are rather different though.

philipkglass 4y ago
The problem with using electrolytic hydrogen from clean energy to make ammonia is that fossil fuels are cheaper, at least when they don't have to pay for CO2 emissions. But the technology is well proven at industrial scale. In the 20th century some remote hydroelectric dams used electricity to make ammonia for fertilizer before the grid was fully built out and servicing other demands became more profitable. China operates methanol-to-olefins (plastic building block molecules) plants on a large scale, albeit using fossil-derived methanol: https://www.honeywell.com/us/en/press/2018/03/jiangsu-sailboat-accepts-worlds-largest-single-train-coal-to-chemicals-plant-from-honeywell-uop https://www.honeywell.com/us/en/press/2018/03/jiangsu-sailbo... The Sailboat facility in Lianyungang City in Jiangsu Province manufactures propylene to make acrylonitrile for clothing and fabrics, and high-performance polymers used in automotive parts, hard hats and other hard plastic products. The plant also produces ethylene for ethylene vinyl acetate copolymers that are used to make adhesives, foams, medical devices, photovoltaic cells, and other products, and C4 olefins for butadiene, an ingredient in synthetic rubber. Methanol can be produced by hydrogenating carbon dioxide with renewable hydrogen. Carbon Recycling International has commercially produced methanol that way since 2012: https://www.carbonrecycling.is/ https://www.carbonrecycling.is/ Carbon Recycling International is the globally-recognised leader in CO2 to methanol technology, operating at industrial scale since 2012. We enable our partners to produce renewable methanol from carbon dioxide and hydrogen, for more sustainable fuels, chemicals and products. It's similar to producing ammonia with clean hydrogen. It combines carbon dioxide with hydrogen instead of nitrogen with hydrogen.