4 ms·

e-bikes around here (Boston) seem to be mostly motorcycles with vestigal pedals. If the rider stopped pedaling, I'm not sure there would be any visible change i

e-bikes around here (Boston) seem to be mostly motorcycles with vestigal pedals. If the rider stopped pedaling, I'm not sure there would be any visible change in vehicle behavior. I may not like it but I prefer it to having more cars on the road.

pmyteh 4y ago
It's interesting, because this exact transition (bike+motor assist -> motorbike) has been seen before. In Britain we had the category of 'moped', complete with vestigial pedals, before they were subsumed into the small motorbikes (limit: 50cc engine). The difference is that now the motor is electric, not a small petrol engine. Will be interesting to see if we end up treating them (again) as small motorbikes, or as bikes with assist (so no compulsory helmet, insurance, or registration). Edit: around here (Liverpool) I see them styled both ways. Some look like motor scooters with pedals, others pedal bikes with a motor. Seems to be fashion rather than functionality that determines which.
- analog31 4y ago
  At least here in the states, the "moped" was not meant to be pedaled while in motion. It was for starting the motor. The gear ratio was too low to be useful while riding. The Honda Spree, with electric starter and centrifugal clutch, put an end to mopeds.
dropofwill 4y ago
There are plenty of people with throttle-less electric hybrids/mountain bikes as well, but they blend in with the other cyclists (until the road tips up hill).
analog31 4y ago
In my locale, they are more like small motorcycles without brakes. Actually, most of the e-cyclists are quite well behaved, but there does seem to be a tendency among the beginners to maneuver through things at speed, that a conventional cyclist would slow down for. My guess is they haven't developed a sense for how far ahead of themselves they actually need to be paying attention. But also, I admit that there's a certain bias here. There are fast and slow cyclists, and those who are polite or jerks. You don't notice the polite cyclists at all. You don't notice the slow jerks, because they're behind you. You only notice the fast jerks, on either electric or conventional bikes. So there's a bias towards thinking that fast riders are jerks.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  >> without brakes That is key. Brakes are largely unregulated on bicycles, at beyond laws saying that they need to have them. Standards for braking power and/or stopping distance would be fought tooth and nail. All those ultra-efficient bikes on slim tires wouldn't be possible if someone set minimum stopping distances.
  - analog31 4y ago
    Actually I was being sarcastic, always a bad idea on web forums, sorry. "Without brakes" meant that people don't slow down when they should. And to be charitable, I think it has to do with people learning what kind of situational awareness and reaction time are needed. The US CPSC does regulate bike brakes. The latest generation of e-bikes actually have quite effective brakes, nearly entirely hydraulic discs. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-II/subchapter-C/part-1512/subpart-A https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-II/subchapter-...
    - sandworm101 4y ago
      Those are regs for sold bikes, not bikes on the street. It doesn't cover customized/user-modified bikes which are the vast majority of commuters these days. There was a man in the UK recently charged with the death of a pedestrian. He was on a fixed-gear bike without front brakes. Causing death during illegal activity means homicide charges in many jurisdictions.
      - analog31 4y ago
        Aha. My state prohibits operating a bike without a brake, though the regulation is light on specifics. I read about that incident too.
- Steltek 4y ago
  Eh, the slow riders are jerks too :). At a red light, they'll cut the line and blow through the intersection. Then the light turns green and you overtake them until the next red light. Rinse and repeat until you get to work/home.

pmyteh 4y ago

It's interesting, because this exact transition (bike+motor assist -> motorbike) has been seen before. In Britain we had the category of 'moped', complete with vestigial pedals, before they were subsumed into the small motorbikes (limit: 50cc engine). The difference is that now the motor is electric, not a small petrol engine. Will be interesting to see if we end up treating them (again) as small motorbikes, or as bikes with assist (so no compulsory helmet, insurance, or registration). Edit: around here (Liverpool) I see them styled both ways. Some look like motor scooters with pedals, others pedal bikes with a motor. Seems to be fashion rather than functionality that determines which.

analog31 4y ago
At least here in the states, the "moped" was not meant to be pedaled while in motion. It was for starting the motor. The gear ratio was too low to be useful while riding. The Honda Spree, with electric starter and centrifugal clutch, put an end to mopeds.

dropofwill 4y ago

There are plenty of people with throttle-less electric hybrids/mountain bikes as well, but they blend in with the other cyclists (until the road tips up hill).

analog31 4y ago

In my locale, they are more like small motorcycles without brakes. Actually, most of the e-cyclists are quite well behaved, but there does seem to be a tendency among the beginners to maneuver through things at speed, that a conventional cyclist would slow down for. My guess is they haven't developed a sense for how far ahead of themselves they actually need to be paying attention. But also, I admit that there's a certain bias here. There are fast and slow cyclists, and those who are polite or jerks. You don't notice the polite cyclists at all. You don't notice the slow jerks, because they're behind you. You only notice the fast jerks, on either electric or conventional bikes. So there's a bias towards thinking that fast riders are jerks.

sandworm101 4y ago
>> without brakes That is key. Brakes are largely unregulated on bicycles, at beyond laws saying that they need to have them. Standards for braking power and/or stopping distance would be fought tooth and nail. All those ultra-efficient bikes on slim tires wouldn't be possible if someone set minimum stopping distances.
- analog31 4y ago
  Actually I was being sarcastic, always a bad idea on web forums, sorry. "Without brakes" meant that people don't slow down when they should. And to be charitable, I think it has to do with people learning what kind of situational awareness and reaction time are needed. The US CPSC does regulate bike brakes. The latest generation of e-bikes actually have quite effective brakes, nearly entirely hydraulic discs. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-II/subchapter-C/part-1512/subpart-A https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-II/subchapter-...
  - sandworm101 4y ago
    Those are regs for sold bikes, not bikes on the street. It doesn't cover customized/user-modified bikes which are the vast majority of commuters these days. There was a man in the UK recently charged with the death of a pedestrian. He was on a fixed-gear bike without front brakes. Causing death during illegal activity means homicide charges in many jurisdictions.
    - analog31 4y ago
      Aha. My state prohibits operating a bike without a brake, though the regulation is light on specifics. I read about that incident too.
Steltek 4y ago
Eh, the slow riders are jerks too :). At a red light, they'll cut the line and blow through the intersection. Then the light turns green and you overtake them until the next red light. Rinse and repeat until you get to work/home.