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Take away the chain and you are on the slippery slope to electric motorcycle. This thing is clearly meant for an electric moped. Up the batter/motor power a l

Take away the chain and you are on the slippery slope to electric motorcycle. This thing is clearly meant for an electric moped. Up the batter/motor power a little and the human input becomes irrelevant. You are then driving an electric motorcycle with some pedals for topping up the battery. Absent the chain-to-pedal drive, the only difference become e-bike and e-motorcycle is some arbitrary line about battery/motor capacity.

analog31 5y ago
Some of the technology choices are driven by: 1) Regulatory distinctions between bikes and motorcycles (and scooters, etc.), how they are licensed, where they can be used. 2) Providing the experience of low intensity exercise. Don't remember where I read it, but e-bikes are becoming prevalent enough in some parts of Europe, that there is a bit of a regulatory backlash going on, for instance requiring a bike to get at least 1/2 of its power from the rider.
- Steltek 5y ago
  e-bikes around here (Boston) seem to be mostly motorcycles with vestigal pedals. If the rider stopped pedaling, I'm not sure there would be any visible change in vehicle behavior. I may not like it but I prefer it to having more cars on the road.
  - pmyteh 5y ago
    It's interesting, because this exact transition (bike+motor assist -> motorbike) has been seen before. In Britain we had the category of 'moped', complete with vestigial pedals, before they were subsumed into the small motorbikes (limit: 50cc engine). The difference is that now the motor is electric, not a small petrol engine. Will be interesting to see if we end up treating them (again) as small motorbikes, or as bikes with assist (so no compulsory helmet, insurance, or registration). Edit: around here (Liverpool) I see them styled both ways. Some look like motor scooters with pedals, others pedal bikes with a motor. Seems to be fashion rather than functionality that determines which.
    - analog31 5y ago
      At least here in the states, the "moped" was not meant to be pedaled while in motion. It was for starting the motor. The gear ratio was too low to be useful while riding. The Honda Spree, with electric starter and centrifugal clutch, put an end to mopeds.
  - dropofwill 5y ago
    There are plenty of people with throttle-less electric hybrids/mountain bikes as well, but they blend in with the other cyclists (until the road tips up hill).
  - analog31 5y ago
    In my locale, they are more like small motorcycles without brakes. Actually, most of the e-cyclists are quite well behaved, but there does seem to be a tendency among the beginners to maneuver through things at speed, that a conventional cyclist would slow down for. My guess is they haven't developed a sense for how far ahead of themselves they actually need to be paying attention. But also, I admit that there's a certain bias here. There are fast and slow cyclists, and those who are polite or jerks. You don't notice the polite cyclists at all. You don't notice the slow jerks, because they're behind you. You only notice the fast jerks, on either electric or conventional bikes. So there's a bias towards thinking that fast riders are jerks.
    - sandworm101 5y ago
      >> without brakes That is key. Brakes are largely unregulated on bicycles, at beyond laws saying that they need to have them. Standards for braking power and/or stopping distance would be fought tooth and nail. All those ultra-efficient bikes on slim tires wouldn't be possible if someone set minimum stopping distances.
      - analog31 5y ago
        Actually I was being sarcastic, always a bad idea on web forums, sorry. "Without brakes" meant that people don't slow down when they should. And to be charitable, I think it has to do with people learning what kind of situational awareness and reaction time are needed. The US CPSC does regulate bike brakes. The latest generation of e-bikes actually have quite effective brakes, nearly entirely hydraulic discs. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-II/subchapter-C/part-1512/subpart-A https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-II/subchapter-...
        sandworm101 5y ago
        Those are regs for sold bikes, not bikes on the street. It doesn't cover customized/user-modified bikes which are the vast majority of commuters these days. There was a man in the UK recently charged with the death of a pedestrian. He was on a fixed-gear bike without front brakes. Causing death during illegal activity means homicide charges in many jurisdictions.
mkhpalm 5y ago
Aren't ebikes just electric mopeds with less comfortable seats? I always heard moped was just a term coined by a journalist trying to describe a bike that had both a motor and pedals.

analog31 5y ago

Some of the technology choices are driven by: 1) Regulatory distinctions between bikes and motorcycles (and scooters, etc.), how they are licensed, where they can be used. 2) Providing the experience of low intensity exercise. Don't remember where I read it, but e-bikes are becoming prevalent enough in some parts of Europe, that there is a bit of a regulatory backlash going on, for instance requiring a bike to get at least 1/2 of its power from the rider.

Steltek 5y ago
e-bikes around here (Boston) seem to be mostly motorcycles with vestigal pedals. If the rider stopped pedaling, I'm not sure there would be any visible change in vehicle behavior. I may not like it but I prefer it to having more cars on the road.
- pmyteh 5y ago
  It's interesting, because this exact transition (bike+motor assist -> motorbike) has been seen before. In Britain we had the category of 'moped', complete with vestigial pedals, before they were subsumed into the small motorbikes (limit: 50cc engine). The difference is that now the motor is electric, not a small petrol engine. Will be interesting to see if we end up treating them (again) as small motorbikes, or as bikes with assist (so no compulsory helmet, insurance, or registration). Edit: around here (Liverpool) I see them styled both ways. Some look like motor scooters with pedals, others pedal bikes with a motor. Seems to be fashion rather than functionality that determines which.
  - analog31 5y ago
    At least here in the states, the "moped" was not meant to be pedaled while in motion. It was for starting the motor. The gear ratio was too low to be useful while riding. The Honda Spree, with electric starter and centrifugal clutch, put an end to mopeds.
- dropofwill 5y ago
  There are plenty of people with throttle-less electric hybrids/mountain bikes as well, but they blend in with the other cyclists (until the road tips up hill).
- analog31 5y ago
  In my locale, they are more like small motorcycles without brakes. Actually, most of the e-cyclists are quite well behaved, but there does seem to be a tendency among the beginners to maneuver through things at speed, that a conventional cyclist would slow down for. My guess is they haven't developed a sense for how far ahead of themselves they actually need to be paying attention. But also, I admit that there's a certain bias here. There are fast and slow cyclists, and those who are polite or jerks. You don't notice the polite cyclists at all. You don't notice the slow jerks, because they're behind you. You only notice the fast jerks, on either electric or conventional bikes. So there's a bias towards thinking that fast riders are jerks.
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    >> without brakes That is key. Brakes are largely unregulated on bicycles, at beyond laws saying that they need to have them. Standards for braking power and/or stopping distance would be fought tooth and nail. All those ultra-efficient bikes on slim tires wouldn't be possible if someone set minimum stopping distances.
    - analog31 5y ago
      Actually I was being sarcastic, always a bad idea on web forums, sorry. "Without brakes" meant that people don't slow down when they should. And to be charitable, I think it has to do with people learning what kind of situational awareness and reaction time are needed. The US CPSC does regulate bike brakes. The latest generation of e-bikes actually have quite effective brakes, nearly entirely hydraulic discs. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-II/subchapter-C/part-1512/subpart-A https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-II/subchapter-...
      - sandworm101 5y ago
        Those are regs for sold bikes, not bikes on the street. It doesn't cover customized/user-modified bikes which are the vast majority of commuters these days. There was a man in the UK recently charged with the death of a pedestrian. He was on a fixed-gear bike without front brakes. Causing death during illegal activity means homicide charges in many jurisdictions.

mkhpalm 5y ago

Aren't ebikes just electric mopeds with less comfortable seats? I always heard moped was just a term coined by a journalist trying to describe a bike that had both a motor and pedals.