9 ms·

When people start using abstract measures to describe something easily quantifiable, it's usually because they're dissembling. We have a pretty good idea what

When people start using abstract measures to describe something easily quantifiable, it's usually because they're dissembling. We have a pretty good idea what Errol's net worth is, and it's a couple million bucks. The emerald mine in question was purchased for the equivalent of $40,000.

Ralfp 4y ago
Imagine arguing that somebody didn’t have financial backing because his dad sold plane and bought emerald mine for half of profit (in country then known for black worker exploitation) for $40.000, and is worth couple millions at best.
- jlmorton 4y ago
  This is how every discussion on Errol Musk's wealth goes. Someone makes an implication that they were fabulously wealthy, using abstract measures like emerald mines, or small planes as a substitute for a concrete measure of wealth. Someone points out the value of both those things was actually quite low. Then the goal posts shift to how much more money the Musk family had than the average family, which is true enough. But they were still decidedly middle class. They all had to work for a living. And in American terms, there are tens of millions of households with similar wealth. Upper middle class, to be sure, but nothing unusual. And the emerald mine, such as it was, is said to have been in Zambia, not South Africa.
  - Ralfp 4y ago
    > Then the goal posts shift to how much more money the Musk family had than the average family, which is true enough. There's hardly a move of goalpost here. People merely argue that showing Elon as self-made "in parent's garage" is bullshit. He had family with capabilities to enable him to participate in ecoms bubble. > Zambia, not South Africa "You are wrong, that labour camp wasn't in USSR but in North Korea." I've haven't named the country BTW.
  - NhanH 4y ago
    A million dollars in 1970-1980 is worth around 3 to 7 million dollars now. 3 millions in that period is worth at least 10 millions right now. And there is decidedly not tens of millions of households in the US with that networth, let alone a single person.
    - jlmorton 4y ago
      To be clear, his net worth is a couple million dollars today.
  - mrtranscendence 4y ago
    As someone pointed out in another comment, "wealthy" does not mean "never having to work again". My life growing up would have been dramatically different if my parents had been worth even a low amount of millions, and the opportunities available to me would have been drastically higher.
ineedasername 4y ago
In today's money it's the equivalent of about $150,000, and funded by selling a plane that sold for twice that amount. I would classify having enough disposable income to own a $300,000 plane & a net worth of a few million to be wealthy. I should note that my working definition of "wealthy" doesn't mean they never have to work again, or don't have to work to maintain their desired lifestyle. Other people may have different benchmarks. As you said, abstract measures aren't easily quantified, and someone else's benchmark for wealthy may be higher.
- nailer 4y ago
  > I would classify a net worth of a few million to be wealthy. This describes many boomers that simply own a house.
  - unclebucknasty 4y ago
    >This describes most boomers and older GenXs. It most assuredly does not.
    - jlmorton 4y ago
      The median net worth of the Baby Boomer generation in America is $1.2 million.
      - gilbetron 4y ago
        Median net worth of boomers is $200k, average net worth is $1.2m because there are a lot of very rich boomers. https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-baby-boomer-net-worth-debt-real-estate-retirement-2021-12#the-typical-boomer-has-a-median-net-worth-of-206700-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-baby-boomer-net-wort...
        nailer 4y ago
        > Median net worth of boomers is $200k, average net worth is $1.2m That's not mathematically logical. 'Average' can be used to describe mean, median or mode.
weakfish 4y ago
Couple million is still leagues above middle class
- jlmorton 4y ago
  When we're discussing total net worth, a couple million dollars is decidedly middle class. In the US, there are 13.6 million households with a net worth over $1 million when excluding their primary residence, out of a total of 126 million households. Over 10% of households in the US, even when excluding the value of their home, have over a million dollars in assets.
  - weakfish 4y ago
    So 10% is middle class? Shouldn’t it be 35+?
memish 4y ago
Besides that, Elon didn't inherit that wealth. He moved to Canada with little money, worked blue collar jobs and had student debt. That's what he started with. At Zip2 he couldn't afford a second computer. People WANT to believe a mythology that Elon started off rich to feel better about not accomplishing anything with their own equally or more privileged life. People that started with little themselves don't have this level of cognitive dissonance and see it more as an immigrant success story and inspiration.
- corobo 4y ago
  > When he started Zip2 he couldn't afford a second computer What does this sentence mean, why’d he need a second computer? Parsing out the odd wording that means he could afford a computer What’s with the second computer? It’s proper nerd sniped me this haha
  - memish 4y ago
    One computer for development, one for a server. He couldn't afford a second so had to use his primary for both purposes.
    - corobo 4y ago
      Actually in fairness that does make sense given a bit of thought
- jkestner 4y ago
  He got a $28,000 loan from his father when starting Zip2. The biggest privilege is having your family's security net, even if you don't use it. Musk has also had luck, being in the right time and place for the dot-com boom. Unlike a lot of people who grew up privileged, he's been a hustler with great business instincts. Unlike a lot of hustlers with great business instincts, he grew up privileged.
  - memish 4y ago
    The loan came later and he was no more privileged than the average Canadian or American at the time. People who dismiss it as privilege are projecting envy, full stop.
DyslexicAtheist 4y ago
like anyone in developing countries and especially wealthy white South Africans do fit this bill rather well would hoard their actual private wealth in other jurisdictions. just because the company itself is worth nothing on paper doesn't mean they haven't pillaged the country resources for private gain like all the other wanna-be crooks and aspiring kleptocrats. [1][2] There is a good reason why the family left SA the moment apartheid was abolished and why Elon Musk never went back since the end of apartheid. Every entitled chuckle-duck born with a silver spoon in their mouth likes to launder their past to make them look self-made. Elon is no different. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_and_the_Men_Who_Stole_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_a... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptopia

Ralfp 4y ago

Imagine arguing that somebody didn’t have financial backing because his dad sold plane and bought emerald mine for half of profit (in country then known for black worker exploitation) for $40.000, and is worth couple millions at best.

jlmorton 4y ago
This is how every discussion on Errol Musk's wealth goes. Someone makes an implication that they were fabulously wealthy, using abstract measures like emerald mines, or small planes as a substitute for a concrete measure of wealth. Someone points out the value of both those things was actually quite low. Then the goal posts shift to how much more money the Musk family had than the average family, which is true enough. But they were still decidedly middle class. They all had to work for a living. And in American terms, there are tens of millions of households with similar wealth. Upper middle class, to be sure, but nothing unusual. And the emerald mine, such as it was, is said to have been in Zambia, not South Africa.
- Ralfp 4y ago
  > Then the goal posts shift to how much more money the Musk family had than the average family, which is true enough. There's hardly a move of goalpost here. People merely argue that showing Elon as self-made "in parent's garage" is bullshit. He had family with capabilities to enable him to participate in ecoms bubble. > Zambia, not South Africa "You are wrong, that labour camp wasn't in USSR but in North Korea." I've haven't named the country BTW.
- NhanH 4y ago
  A million dollars in 1970-1980 is worth around 3 to 7 million dollars now. 3 millions in that period is worth at least 10 millions right now. And there is decidedly not tens of millions of households in the US with that networth, let alone a single person.
  - jlmorton 4y ago
    To be clear, his net worth is a couple million dollars today.
- mrtranscendence 4y ago
  As someone pointed out in another comment, "wealthy" does not mean "never having to work again". My life growing up would have been dramatically different if my parents had been worth even a low amount of millions, and the opportunities available to me would have been drastically higher.

ineedasername 4y ago

In today's money it's the equivalent of about $150,000, and funded by selling a plane that sold for twice that amount. I would classify having enough disposable income to own a $300,000 plane & a net worth of a few million to be wealthy. I should note that my working definition of "wealthy" doesn't mean they never have to work again, or don't have to work to maintain their desired lifestyle. Other people may have different benchmarks. As you said, abstract measures aren't easily quantified, and someone else's benchmark for wealthy may be higher.

nailer 4y ago
> I would classify a net worth of a few million to be wealthy. This describes many boomers that simply own a house.
- unclebucknasty 4y ago
  >This describes most boomers and older GenXs. It most assuredly does not.
  - jlmorton 4y ago
    The median net worth of the Baby Boomer generation in America is $1.2 million.
    - gilbetron 4y ago
      Median net worth of boomers is $200k, average net worth is $1.2m because there are a lot of very rich boomers. https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-baby-boomer-net-worth-debt-real-estate-retirement-2021-12#the-typical-boomer-has-a-median-net-worth-of-206700-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-baby-boomer-net-wort...
      - nailer 4y ago
        > Median net worth of boomers is $200k, average net worth is $1.2m That's not mathematically logical. 'Average' can be used to describe mean, median or mode.

weakfish 4y ago

Couple million is still leagues above middle class

jlmorton 4y ago
When we're discussing total net worth, a couple million dollars is decidedly middle class. In the US, there are 13.6 million households with a net worth over $1 million when excluding their primary residence, out of a total of 126 million households. Over 10% of households in the US, even when excluding the value of their home, have over a million dollars in assets.
- weakfish 4y ago
  So 10% is middle class? Shouldn’t it be 35+?

memish 4y ago

Besides that, Elon didn't inherit that wealth. He moved to Canada with little money, worked blue collar jobs and had student debt. That's what he started with. At Zip2 he couldn't afford a second computer. People WANT to believe a mythology that Elon started off rich to feel better about not accomplishing anything with their own equally or more privileged life. People that started with little themselves don't have this level of cognitive dissonance and see it more as an immigrant success story and inspiration.

corobo 4y ago
> When he started Zip2 he couldn't afford a second computer What does this sentence mean, why’d he need a second computer? Parsing out the odd wording that means he could afford a computer What’s with the second computer? It’s proper nerd sniped me this haha
- memish 4y ago
  One computer for development, one for a server. He couldn't afford a second so had to use his primary for both purposes.
  - corobo 4y ago
    Actually in fairness that does make sense given a bit of thought
jkestner 4y ago
He got a $28,000 loan from his father when starting Zip2. The biggest privilege is having your family's security net, even if you don't use it. Musk has also had luck, being in the right time and place for the dot-com boom. Unlike a lot of people who grew up privileged, he's been a hustler with great business instincts. Unlike a lot of hustlers with great business instincts, he grew up privileged.
- memish 4y ago
  The loan came later and he was no more privileged than the average Canadian or American at the time. People who dismiss it as privilege are projecting envy, full stop.

DyslexicAtheist 4y ago

like anyone in developing countries and especially wealthy white South Africans do fit this bill rather well would hoard their actual private wealth in other jurisdictions. just because the company itself is worth nothing on paper doesn't mean they haven't pillaged the country resources for private gain like all the other wanna-be crooks and aspiring kleptocrats. [1][2] There is a good reason why the family left SA the moment apartheid was abolished and why Elon Musk never went back since the end of apartheid. Every entitled chuckle-duck born with a silver spoon in their mouth likes to launder their past to make them look self-made. Elon is no different. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_and_the_Men_Who_Stole_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_a... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptopia