7 ms·

This makes no sense. Why should there be less taxes on crypto than on stocks and similar things?

ketzu 4y ago
They are treated like ordinary everyday things, like shoes, pants or silverware, not as investments. edit edit: I have to reinvestiage again... I messed up twice already in correcting myself final edit: Until further notice, I stand by the claim that cryptocurrencies are treated as collectibles and other non-everyday assets for tax purposes in germany. The original statement was, however, a wrong oversimplification. They are not actually "everyday items" as those would be tax free i reselling according to [1] which lists as "everyday items" that are tax free for resale: baby clothes, books or private cars. They list as non "everyday items" that are taxed (to some degree) on gains: Limited sneakers or handbags, rarities and collectables, jewlery, precious metals and antiquities. [1] https://taxfix.de/steuertipps/ebay-steuern-zahlen-privat-oder-gewerblich/ https://taxfix.de/steuertipps/ebay-steuern-zahlen-privat-ode...
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  Citation needed, I'm 99% confident they're classified as investments worldwide now.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ketzu 4y ago
    So, I spent some time now to not just find sources that verify my own opinion, but also some that discuss the possibile changes. My previous opinion: Cryptocurrencies are treated similar to PS5s and rare sneakers [1]. [2] says: > Kryptowährungen sind kein gesetzliches Zahlungsmittel. Vielmehr werden sie – zumindest im Ertragsteuerrecht – als immaterielle Wirtschaftsgüter betrachtet. Cryptocurrencies are intangible assets. This is confirmed by courts in 2021 at least [3] and rephrased by others [4]: > Virtuelle Währungen zählen rechtlich nicht als (Fremd-)Währung oder Kapitalanlage, sondern als sonstige Wirtschaftsgüter. Austria changed their laws recently [5] classifying cryptocurrencies as investments and charging capital gains taxes. [6] discusses in decembre 2021 that it is unlikely that germany will follow this. This seems to hold as [7] from april this year also states: > Der Handel mit Kryptowährungen wie Bitcoin ist in Deutschland steuerlich dem Handel mit Kunstwerken und anderen Wertgegenständen gleichgestellt. Es gelten die gesetzlichen Vorgaben zum privaten Veräußerungsgeschäft nach Paragraf 23 Absatz 1 des Einkommensteuergesetzes. I also can't find any changes to classifying crypto as investments in germany, so I'd ask you in return: Please provide a citation so I can update my knowledge. [1] https://taxfix.de/steuertipps/ebay-steuern-zahlen-privat-oder-gewerblich/ https://taxfix.de/steuertipps/ebay-steuern-zahlen-privat-ode... [2] https://www.winheller.com/bankrecht-finanzrecht/bitcointrading/bitcoinundsteuer/besteuerung-kryprowaehrungen.html https://www.winheller.com/bankrecht-finanzrecht/bitcointradi... [3] https://www.haufe.de/steuern/rechtsprechung/veraeusserungsgewinne-bei-kryptowaehrungen-sind-steuerpflichtig_166_557090.html https://www.haufe.de/steuern/rechtsprechung/veraeusserungsge... [4] https://www.smartsteuer.de/online/steuerwissen/kryptowaehrung-und-steuererklaerung/ https://www.smartsteuer.de/online/steuerwissen/kryptowaehrun... [5] https://futurezone.at/digital-life/krypto-steuer-gesetz-oesterreich-oekosoziale-steuerreform-bmf-verlustverrechnung-bitcoin/401843035 https://futurezone.at/digital-life/krypto-steuer-gesetz-oest... [6] https://www.cmshs-bloggt.de/steuerrecht/ertraege-aus-kryptowerten-bald-auch-in-deutschland-kapitaleinkuenfte/ https://www.cmshs-bloggt.de/steuerrecht/ertraege-aus-kryptow... [7] https://www.computerbild.de/artikel/cb-Tipps-Internet-Bitcoin-Steuern-2021-2022-25520329.html https://www.computerbild.de/artikel/cb-Tipps-Internet-Bitcoi...
    - codethief 4y ago
      Your comment should be farther up. Thanks for the research!
  - codethief 4y ago
    The source is right in the article: Crypto currencies fall under §23 EStG (= Germany's income tax law) which is concerned with selling "ordinary everyday things".
TacticalCoder 4y ago
Depending on the country trading the FOREX can be taxed differently than trading stocks (for example not taxed at all). If crytocurrencies are considered, somehow, currencies (no matter how volatile they are), then it may explain it.

They are treated like ordinary everyday things, like shoes, pants or silverware, not as investments. edit edit: I have to reinvestiage again... I messed up twice already in correcting myself final edit: Until further notice, I stand by the claim that cryptocurrencies are treated as collectibles and other non-everyday assets for tax purposes in germany. The original statement was, however, a wrong oversimplification. They are not actually "everyday items" as those would be tax free i reselling according to [1] which lists as "everyday items" that are tax free for resale: baby clothes, books or private cars. They list as non "everyday items" that are taxed (to some degree) on gains: Limited sneakers or handbags, rarities and collectables, jewlery, precious metals and antiquities. [1] https://taxfix.de/steuertipps/ebay-steuern-zahlen-privat-oder-gewerblich/ https://taxfix.de/steuertipps/ebay-steuern-zahlen-privat-ode...

Cthulhu_ 4y ago
Citation needed, I'm 99% confident they're classified as investments worldwide now.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ketzu 4y ago
  So, I spent some time now to not just find sources that verify my own opinion, but also some that discuss the possibile changes. My previous opinion: Cryptocurrencies are treated similar to PS5s and rare sneakers [1]. [2] says: > Kryptowährungen sind kein gesetzliches Zahlungsmittel. Vielmehr werden sie – zumindest im Ertragsteuerrecht – als immaterielle Wirtschaftsgüter betrachtet. Cryptocurrencies are intangible assets. This is confirmed by courts in 2021 at least [3] and rephrased by others [4]: > Virtuelle Währungen zählen rechtlich nicht als (Fremd-)Währung oder Kapitalanlage, sondern als sonstige Wirtschaftsgüter. Austria changed their laws recently [5] classifying cryptocurrencies as investments and charging capital gains taxes. [6] discusses in decembre 2021 that it is unlikely that germany will follow this. This seems to hold as [7] from april this year also states: > Der Handel mit Kryptowährungen wie Bitcoin ist in Deutschland steuerlich dem Handel mit Kunstwerken und anderen Wertgegenständen gleichgestellt. Es gelten die gesetzlichen Vorgaben zum privaten Veräußerungsgeschäft nach Paragraf 23 Absatz 1 des Einkommensteuergesetzes. I also can't find any changes to classifying crypto as investments in germany, so I'd ask you in return: Please provide a citation so I can update my knowledge. [1] https://taxfix.de/steuertipps/ebay-steuern-zahlen-privat-oder-gewerblich/ https://taxfix.de/steuertipps/ebay-steuern-zahlen-privat-ode... [2] https://www.winheller.com/bankrecht-finanzrecht/bitcointrading/bitcoinundsteuer/besteuerung-kryprowaehrungen.html https://www.winheller.com/bankrecht-finanzrecht/bitcointradi... [3] https://www.haufe.de/steuern/rechtsprechung/veraeusserungsgewinne-bei-kryptowaehrungen-sind-steuerpflichtig_166_557090.html https://www.haufe.de/steuern/rechtsprechung/veraeusserungsge... [4] https://www.smartsteuer.de/online/steuerwissen/kryptowaehrung-und-steuererklaerung/ https://www.smartsteuer.de/online/steuerwissen/kryptowaehrun... [5] https://futurezone.at/digital-life/krypto-steuer-gesetz-oesterreich-oekosoziale-steuerreform-bmf-verlustverrechnung-bitcoin/401843035 https://futurezone.at/digital-life/krypto-steuer-gesetz-oest... [6] https://www.cmshs-bloggt.de/steuerrecht/ertraege-aus-kryptowerten-bald-auch-in-deutschland-kapitaleinkuenfte/ https://www.cmshs-bloggt.de/steuerrecht/ertraege-aus-kryptow... [7] https://www.computerbild.de/artikel/cb-Tipps-Internet-Bitcoin-Steuern-2021-2022-25520329.html https://www.computerbild.de/artikel/cb-Tipps-Internet-Bitcoi...
  - codethief 4y ago
    Your comment should be farther up. Thanks for the research!
- codethief 4y ago
  The source is right in the article: Crypto currencies fall under §23 EStG (= Germany's income tax law) which is concerned with selling "ordinary everyday things".

TacticalCoder 4y ago

Depending on the country trading the FOREX can be taxed differently than trading stocks (for example not taxed at all). If crytocurrencies are considered, somehow, currencies (no matter how volatile they are), then it may explain it.