10 ms·

He's always been like that - narcissistic, manipulative, dishonest, hateful, lacking empathy, attention-seeking, unhinged. I can't believe that so many people

• zozbot234 4y ago
  > He's always been like that - narcissistic, manipulative, dishonest, hateful, lacking empathy, attention-seeking, unhinged. That only makes it even more impressive that he has managed to accomplish truly world-changing things like building reusable rockets or practical mass-market EV's. Most "narcissistic, manipulative, dishonest, hateful, lacking empathy, attention-seeking, unhinged" folks wouldn't manage to do anything even marginally worthwhile, even in such a key position as, e.g. being president of a large superpower. (Also, let's give the previous U.S. president credit where credit is due; he might have a repulsive personality, but at least he didn't start any foolish wars! So there's that, too.)
  • akie 4y ago
    You should read Steve Jobs' biography for another example of someone with these characteristics.
    • thomasz 4y ago
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      • lapcat 4y ago
        > Steve Jobs was charismatic and somewhat of an asshole to the people around him. But he wasn’t unhinged, self aggrandizing and attention seeking. He wasn't unhinged. He was definitely self aggrandizing and attention seeking. Jobs was an asshole, but he was an adult asshole. A mature asshole. He wasn't a juvenile asshole. Both Musk and Trump give the impression of having the emotional maturity of a pre-teen.
    • lolive 4y ago
      Do read it on your iPhone for even more cognitive dissonance ;)
    • papito 4y ago
      The characteristic is being able to see the talents of others and exploit them. Jobs was and Musk is great at that, although Musk is an actual [software] engineer. Those employees trapped on an island for months developing SpaceX rockets in miserable conditions did the work.
      • chasd00 4y ago
        I've always felt Musk's most unique ability was finding the right people to fill the right roles and somehow convince these people to come work 8 days a week for him.
        • papito 4y ago
          He is definitely technical. Like, his engineers can explain stuff to him. That said, let's not extoll Musk as some super-brilliant mind. He is good, but not THAT good. He pissed off a lot of people at PayPal when he was aggressively pushing for Windows servers.
  • andrepd 4y ago
    I was under the impression he was the money / marketing guy, I didn't realise he built or designed any rockets / EVs himself.
    • e8gy3 4y ago
      This! Amazes me everyone thinks he’s the brain behind the incredible technologies his companies create.
    • blairbeckwith 4y ago
      Even if this was true (nearly everyone who has studied Musk says that although he may not lead day to day engineering, he is gifted at figuring this stuff out)… It is clearly non-trivial to rally a group of people, funding sources, and, er, marketing resources to accomplish what he has accomplished. Evidence: nobody else has done it.
      • danparsonson 4y ago
        > Evidence: nobody else has done it. Er... what? He's focussed his attention on some specific problems and made good progress solving them; people have been doing that for as long as there have been people. Sure he's had great success and clearly does a lot of things well. He's not singular in that.
    • martyvis 4y ago
      You need to watch this interview with Tim Dodd (the space YouTuber) and you'll realise in the first 15 minutes he really is an engineer https://youtu.be/t705r8ICkRw https://youtu.be/t705r8ICkRw
  • Sebb767 4y ago
    I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but being good for humanity overall is not the same as being a good person to be around. He definitely did a lot of good for this world, but that doesn't mean that he's an easy person - quite to the contrary, to be this successful, you need to be very assertive and sure of yourself. Look at Bill Gates for another example. His early business dealings are well known to be ruthless and he pushed MS at the cost of a lot of things, but now he uses his wealth mostly for good. As much as we'd like, we really can't reduce people to "good person" and "bad person".
    • spaetzleesser 4y ago
      The question is whether the damage these people made while accumulating wealth gets compensated by the good they did later. With Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller I don’t think so. With Gates I am not sure. Musk actually looks better. He has shaken up two industries that needed a good shake.
      • Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
        > With Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller I don’t think so. With Gates I am not sure All 3 of them took wealth away from paper-millionaire shareholders of competing companies (eg. Netscape) and delivered superior quality of life to the consumer. Nobody sheds a tear for the paper-millionaires, rightfully so. It's only their greed which didn't make them cashout before Standard Oil/Microsoft eventually outcompeted them delivering a better product to the consumer. Same with Facebook v. Myspace and Google v. Yahoo. Nobody sheds a tear for the shareholders of Myspace and Yahoo. Rightfully so. Musk is robbing taxpayers in the form of subsidies and tax credits for luxury vehicles which all end up parked in front of Bel Air mansions and 5th Avenue shops. On top of that he already said that he'll never do philantropy
        • spaetzleesser 4y ago
          “All 3 of them took wealth away from paper-millionaire shareholders of competing companies (eg. Netscape) and delivered superior quality of life to the consumer” Especially Carnegie made life miserable for tens of thousands of his workers. No amount of charity can make up for the amount of suffering he caused.
  • Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
    > truly world-changing things Musk has been at the helm of Tesla for 20 years. The past year was a very slow year for the car selling business except for luxury vehicles of course (which Tesla is). In 2021 Teslas accounted for approx. 1% of total global vehicles sales. 1% in 20 years. World-changing.
    • Msw242 4y ago
      • Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
        • Msw242 4y ago
          PayPal is profitable, SpaceX is the cheapest way to get cargo into space, and Tesla is 3x profit per car versus Ford/GM. He's not Jesus, but he's also not Bernie Madoff.
          • itsoktocry 4y ago
            >PayPal is profitable Elon was gone way before he could have had any influence on modern Paypal's profitability. >SpaceX is the cheapest way to get cargo into space Well, we don't know the financials, so it could be cheaper for the customer, while burning investor capital. But this one seems like money-well-spent, at least. >Tesla is 3x profit per car versus Ford/GM Are you talking about gross profit margins?
          • Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
            > PAYPAL Musk was CEO of Paypal for 6 months back in 2001. He was fired because he was running the company into the ground. Peter Thiel managed to save the company and sell it to Ebay > SpaceX is the cheapest way to get cargo into space Is the American consumer in need to send any cargo to the ISS? SpaceX is a graft built on big government > Tesla is 3x profit per car versus Ford/GM 30 Billions of subsidies and credits in 20 years to arrive to the same financial achievement as Ferrari in the 90s. Only Teslas don't look like Ferraris unfortunately. They are also still more scarce than Ferraris, if not on the roads, for sure in absolute numbers. Pretty poor performance when the Italian brand makes 9,000-12,000 cars per year dependant upon macroeconomic enviornoment. Also they are cooking the books. Everybody who looks at musk and how it operates understands this. He believes in manifestation and faking it till you make it.
  • RivieraKid 4y ago
    This can also be said about good-hearted people, most of them don't have world-changing achievements. It's said that the rate of psychopathy among CEOs is above the population average. So not sure what's your point. But I like the passive aggressive nature of your comment.
  • seu 4y ago
    > Most "narcissistic, manipulative, dishonest, hateful, lacking empathy, attention-seeking, unhinged" folks wouldn't manage to do anything even marginally worthwhile, even in such a key position as, e.g. being president of a large superpower. On the contrary, our world is practically made for those people to be successful. Psychopaths do great in unbridled capitalism.
    • bilvar 4y ago
      You should read some history books and find out how successful and effective they were in collectivist societies (eg. Nazi Germany, USSR) too.
  • hooande 4y ago
    > "truly world changing"
  • kibwen 4y ago
    > That only makes it even more impressive that he has managed to accomplish truly world-changing things Nobody should be surprised when a CEO acts like a jagoff, that's par for the course. To wit, so quickly HN forgets about Jobs and his cult of personality. Ten years ago, it felt like half of the people on this forum had their lips so far up Jobs' sphincter that they could see the sunlight through his nostrils. Now it seems this adulation has found a new outlet.
    • Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
      It's a reminder that cult of personality is a virus which can attack anyone ranging from the successful full stack developer making 200k in the Bay area to the Iowa farmer trying to figure out who to vote for. It's also a reminder that things can always become worse. At least Jobs managed to first put a phone in every pocket and only then got paid for it. Like Gates with PCs. Also Jobs was paid a salary because his hubris got himself outed from Apple the first time around and his ownership was down to single digits. Musk first sued for the right to be called the founder of Tesla , he then managed to inflate a financial bubble to get paid upfront for work he'll never deliver. It's the gilded age of frauds out there.
  • sweetheart 4y ago
    Actually narcissistic, manipulative, and low empathy people tend to do better in capitalist societies. It tends to be a benefit, rather than a hindrance, when it comes to finding professional success. I mean, you’ll alienate yourself from everyone, but you’ll be rich! Source: My wife professionally studies personality disorders
  • KaiserPro 4y ago
    yup, and you know what his super power is? _money_ Anyone with enough billions can do what Elon has done.
    • ben_w 4y ago
      1) He didn’t start with billions 2) Neither Boeing nor Ford have put a car into a trans-Martian Solar orbit, and they did start with billions
      • hef19898 4y ago
        Ford pioneered modern car manufacturing, and Boeing got stuff farthet out in space. Shooting a Tesla on a SpaceX rocket was just a publicity stunt. A genius one it seems.
        • ben_w 4y ago
          > Boeing got stuff farthet out in space. Despite which SLS is still not flying and Starliner is stuck in test flights and not human certified, despite both having been started a bit before SpaceX was being valued as high as $1.3 billion. Similar with Ford: fantastic past! Yet the money from that past win didn’t let them do what Musk did. QED, “billions” are not enough by themselves.
      • hammyhavoc 4y ago
        What was the gain from having a car in a trans-Martian orbit other than yet more space junk?
        • ben_w 4y ago
          Judging by the difference between the funding rounds 2 months before the launch and the one 2 months after, it gained $3.4 billion.
          • hammyhavoc 4y ago
            I should have been more specific. The gain for humanity.
  • themitigating 4y ago
    "narcissistic, manipulative, dishonest, hateful, lacking empathy, attention-seeking, unhinged" folks wouldn't manage to do anything even marginally worthwhile, " Is it rare? We just had a president with similar traits
    • hammyhavoc 4y ago
      Not an American, but what worthwhile things did the former president achieve for you? Our media painted him in a less-than-pleasant light.
      • myvoiceismypass 4y ago
        Worthwhile things: stacking the Supreme Court with far-right justices & lowering taxes for the wealthy. These are massive successes for the party he represents (which is actually a minority of the country, unfortunately)
      • themitigating 4y ago
        Simply achieving the office is what I was referring to
  • NaN1352 4y ago
    Not that impressive, but something our society needs to grapple with: how left hemisphere’s distorted view of reality is highly functional in our cuurent way of life and especially around capitalism. Much of that is addressed in McGilchrist’s The Divided Brain. I don’t think Musk is a bad person, but he is displaying like many "high functioning" people in our current economic and political systems, signs of lack of empathy, hyper materialist views, etc. Unsurprisingly left hemisphere dominant people (who are unbalanced), can do very well in systems that are designed by the left hemisphere and reward everything the left hemisphere is about (control, supposed knowledge of how reality works or is, power, inflated sense of self and ideas of being "self made" etc.)
  • Jordrok 4y ago
    > (Also, let's give the previous U.S. president credit where credit is due; he might have a repulsive personality, but at least he didn't start any foolish wars! So there's that, too.) I always find it so amusing when the best thing anyone can say about our previous White House occupant is what he DIDN'T do (and not for lack of trying!). As if a pet rock or farm animal couldn't have accomplished the same feat.
    • kibwen 4y ago
      And completely ignoring that he was trying his damndest to provoke Iran into a war as late as early 2020, by ordering an airstrike on one of their generals.
  • papito 4y ago
    Smart doesn't mean wise. Yes, he has pushed electric car and space market forward, but he talked about e-cars and going to Mars back when he was 14. He is literally a rich kid living out his teenage phantasies. Albeit successfully. He is still a tool.
• andrepd 4y ago
  It's precisely this narcissistic personality which some people love about him. Personally I blame marvel movies. Many immature people think the world is a superhero flick and Elon Musk is a real-life Tony Stark: arrogant billionaire genius who is going to fix the world from his superlab.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • smt88 4y ago
    Notably, Tony Stark nearly destroyed the world because he was an unelected oligarch who thought he knew better than everyone else...
  • ben_w 4y ago
    IIRC, MCU Tony Stark was based on Musk.
  • croon 4y ago
    Honestly I would rather blame some fans (Musk included) of great shows like Rick & Morty, IASIP, Breaking Bad or the Joker movie for mistaking protagonists/anti-heros/funny characters for people to emulate and completely missing the point. If you cheer the part you're supposed to laugh at/feel sad for, I start to get a picture of what "dangerous" media could mean.
    • ascagnel_ 4y ago
      As a counterpoint to shows like the ones you list (where they revel in showing terrible, yet likable, characters doing terrible things), the show "Mythic Quest" flips and shows terrible characters struggling with trying to change within themselves, and how it's a slow, discontinuous process where it's possible to both backslide and recover.
  • jcranberry 4y ago
    Tony Stark had a strong sense of accountability/guilt though.
• Chazprime 4y ago
  > narcissistic, manipulative, dishonest, hateful, lacking empathy, attention-seeking, unhinged. It sounds as if Musk and Twitter are a match made in heaven.
• chrisseaton 4y ago
  People love a charismatic narcissist though.
  • ben_w 4y ago
    Isn’t that a tautology? Everyone likes charisma, don’t they?
    • chrisseaton 4y ago
      No - I mean people often find narcissism charismatic.
      • ben_w 4y ago
        Ah, understood. Thanks for the clarification! :)
• aaa_aaa 4y ago
  Previous and the current presidents are far worse evil people. They first destroyed lives with meaningless lockdowns then pumped trillions of dollars which destroyed economy and impoverished people. Musk cannot even come close to these.
  • Ensorceled 4y ago
    I find it fascinating when someone agrees with me about a person (e.g. the previous president being evil) but their list of reasons has none of the items on my long, long list of terrible actions and, instead, has only items from my "at least they did the following" list.
• deleted 4y ago
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• JohnBooty 4y ago
  He's always been like that - narcissistic, manipulative, dishonest, hateful, lacking empathy, attention-seeking, unhinged. I can't believe that so many people still haven't figured him out Many of their fans love them precisely because of those "negative" qualities.