6 ms·

> I find it somewhat atrocious how much we like to tell the great stories of how we went and stole, raped, killed and enslaved during the time of the discoverie

> I find it somewhat atrocious how much we like to tell the great stories of how we went and stole, raped, killed and enslaved during the time of the discoveries, all for our own pleasure (and that of our religion). Is that really the general consensus over there? I'm trying to think of a way someone would rationalize decimating entire tribes over wood as a good thing but I'm coming up short.

groby_b 4y ago
Have you met Americans? And the myth of "conquering the West"? Heck, we just had a president who thought Andrew Jackson was the best thing since sliced bread - and that guy is sort of the textbook definition of a cheerleader for genocide and slavery. So, yes, people rationalize a whole lot of truly horrible stuff if it was "their" group doing the horrible stuff. Edit: To be clear, that's not specifically about Americans or Portuguese. The "when we did it, it was good, but otherwise it's horrible" thing is a pretty universal trait.
kmonsen 4y ago
My ancestors were Vikings. We all have skeletons in the closet
fileeditview 4y ago
In my experience people mostly don't really think about these things too deeply. They see it as an epoch where their country was successful, proud, expanding etc. They look at this very superficially and don't think about the harm caused. I think this becomes more prevalent the poorer/less significant the country is today compared to their great past. It's the "good old times" phenomenon.
pjc50 4y ago
> rationalize decimating entire tribes over wood "Look at this cool palace we built and all the rare and exotic wood we used!" "Where did you get the wood again?" (See the general argument about decolonisation and re-contextualising within European countries, and fights over things like the Edward Colston statue)
jorl17 4y ago
Like someone has said, people don't really think about it that much. No one is out there saying we should "conquer the world like we did before", but they do look at that as the "greatest period in our history" and they praise our "courage" for "finding new worlds". Portuguese people were the discoverers, it's like the world is what it is because of our amazing courage and abilities[1]. The fact that we did that while pillaging, murdering and raping is often not even considered. It does not help that we have "Os Lusíadas" which is a literary wonder in terms of its form, but whose content is basically emphatically praising those times. I hate "Os Lusíadas" not due to its form, like many young people do, but due to its content and how it praises the story of how we went about being warmongers and rapists. So while you say that people "rationalize", most people really haven't thought about it at all. [1] We're one of those countries that are so small or have such an inferiority complex that we are obsessed with anything in the news or history of the world that involves us. We go crazy because Obama's dog is a "portuguese water dog", or because "Cristiano Ronaldo" is well-known, or because some character in a sitcom mentioned us. So knowing that we were once "great" or "responsible" for something usually fills us with never-ending pride. I can't get this mentality, and I very much despise it. I guess it just shows how disconnected I am. I love our people, and I think we're genuinely nice, polite and have decent work-ethic, as well as a country with reasonably beautiful landscape, a safe environment and nice weather (not for me, but for most people). However, that's about it. In other words, if a war broke out and I had to choose between leaving the country or fighting for it, I would definitely not fight for it, as it means very little to me. There are many things that mean much more to me than my country, and those I would be willing to fight for.
- Kaze404 4y ago
  That makes a lot of sense. I have Portuguese heritage and plan on acquiring citizenship in the future. It's nice to get some insight on the culture over there. Thank you.

groby_b 4y ago

Have you met Americans? And the myth of "conquering the West"? Heck, we just had a president who thought Andrew Jackson was the best thing since sliced bread - and that guy is sort of the textbook definition of a cheerleader for genocide and slavery. So, yes, people rationalize a whole lot of truly horrible stuff if it was "their" group doing the horrible stuff. Edit: To be clear, that's not specifically about Americans or Portuguese. The "when we did it, it was good, but otherwise it's horrible" thing is a pretty universal trait.

kmonsen 4y ago

My ancestors were Vikings. We all have skeletons in the closet

fileeditview 4y ago

In my experience people mostly don't really think about these things too deeply. They see it as an epoch where their country was successful, proud, expanding etc. They look at this very superficially and don't think about the harm caused. I think this becomes more prevalent the poorer/less significant the country is today compared to their great past. It's the "good old times" phenomenon.

pjc50 4y ago

> rationalize decimating entire tribes over wood "Look at this cool palace we built and all the rare and exotic wood we used!" "Where did you get the wood again?" (See the general argument about decolonisation and re-contextualising within European countries, and fights over things like the Edward Colston statue)

jorl17 4y ago

Like someone has said, people don't really think about it that much. No one is out there saying we should "conquer the world like we did before", but they do look at that as the "greatest period in our history" and they praise our "courage" for "finding new worlds". Portuguese people were the discoverers, it's like the world is what it is because of our amazing courage and abilities[1]. The fact that we did that while pillaging, murdering and raping is often not even considered. It does not help that we have "Os Lusíadas" which is a literary wonder in terms of its form, but whose content is basically emphatically praising those times. I hate "Os Lusíadas" not due to its form, like many young people do, but due to its content and how it praises the story of how we went about being warmongers and rapists. So while you say that people "rationalize", most people really haven't thought about it at all. [1] We're one of those countries that are so small or have such an inferiority complex that we are obsessed with anything in the news or history of the world that involves us. We go crazy because Obama's dog is a "portuguese water dog", or because "Cristiano Ronaldo" is well-known, or because some character in a sitcom mentioned us. So knowing that we were once "great" or "responsible" for something usually fills us with never-ending pride. I can't get this mentality, and I very much despise it. I guess it just shows how disconnected I am. I love our people, and I think we're genuinely nice, polite and have decent work-ethic, as well as a country with reasonably beautiful landscape, a safe environment and nice weather (not for me, but for most people). However, that's about it. In other words, if a war broke out and I had to choose between leaving the country or fighting for it, I would definitely not fight for it, as it means very little to me. There are many things that mean much more to me than my country, and those I would be willing to fight for.

Kaze404 4y ago
That makes a lot of sense. I have Portuguese heritage and plan on acquiring citizenship in the future. It's nice to get some insight on the culture over there. Thank you.