6 ms·

Portugal has been extremely popular with the nomad community too. A good dozen of friends of mine have already moved there through NHR and lots more are in the

by nazavo 4y ago

Portugal has been extremely popular with the nomad community too. A good dozen of friends of mine have already moved there through NHR and lots more are in the works. There are also projects like rebase.co, which make things super easy to set up base in the country. It seems like it's getting to a point where Portugal so popular, it might steer people away from itself instead.

jorl17 4y ago
It's amazing that people within the country (I live in Portugal and am portuguese) mostly want to get out, and so many people seem to want to get in (to work outside). I genuinely don't 100% get it.
- pydry 4y ago
  I noticed when I last visited that many uber rides were like, 2.50 eur. Kind of makes sense in that context. If youve got money the country is great. If you need to earn it it sucks.
- maxlamb 4y ago
  I think the reason is that the majority of people moving in to Portugal are nomads who already have high salaries, and the Portuguese trying to get out either have low salaries or are unemployed.
  - jorl17 4y ago
    Most of my friends are very much employed, pretty smart (they'd get a job pretty much anywhere, probably FAANG, too) and they are either out of the country or want to get out. In general, they want higher salaries (like you mentioned), but there also seems to be a clear disdain for most of the portuguese cultural heritage, to be honest. This might be an ecochamber (I'd put money on it being the case) but most people "around me" who are in "the tech world" are pretty much diametrically opposed to most portuguese customs and culture. They don't really identify with the country, the history, the religion, the folklore, the politics, the sports...and if you add the income disparity to it, it makes sense that they want to leave. If not for the will of my Significant Others throughout the years, I would have definitely left a looooong time ago. (Man, I find it somewhat atrocious how much we like to tell the great stories of how we went and stole, raped, killed and enslaved during the time of the discoveries, all for our own pleasure (and that of our religion). I guess I can somewhat frame it in its time, but you will never hear me talk about our "great accomplishments" in that regard. I'm deeply ashamed of them, not proud.)
    - Kaze404 4y ago
      > I find it somewhat atrocious how much we like to tell the great stories of how we went and stole, raped, killed and enslaved during the time of the discoveries, all for our own pleasure (and that of our religion). Is that really the general consensus over there? I'm trying to think of a way someone would rationalize decimating entire tribes over wood as a good thing but I'm coming up short.
      - groby_b 4y ago
        Have you met Americans? And the myth of "conquering the West"? Heck, we just had a president who thought Andrew Jackson was the best thing since sliced bread - and that guy is sort of the textbook definition of a cheerleader for genocide and slavery. So, yes, people rationalize a whole lot of truly horrible stuff if it was "their" group doing the horrible stuff. Edit: To be clear, that's not specifically about Americans or Portuguese. The "when we did it, it was good, but otherwise it's horrible" thing is a pretty universal trait.
      - kmonsen 4y ago
        My ancestors were Vikings. We all have skeletons in the closet
      - fileeditview 4y ago
        In my experience people mostly don't really think about these things too deeply. They see it as an epoch where their country was successful, proud, expanding etc. They look at this very superficially and don't think about the harm caused. I think this becomes more prevalent the poorer/less significant the country is today compared to their great past. It's the "good old times" phenomenon.
      - pjc50 4y ago
        > rationalize decimating entire tribes over wood "Look at this cool palace we built and all the rare and exotic wood we used!" "Where did you get the wood again?" (See the general argument about decolonisation and re-contextualising within European countries, and fights over things like the Edward Colston statue)
- whazor 4y ago
  I do. If you got a remote gig, you can have a high salary (>100k€). Whereas if you just graduated from a Portugese university and a starting salary could be around 20k€. If you move within EU, you could boost your salary to 50k€. Portugal is an amazing country with great food, people, and weather.
- throwawayboise 4y ago
  The people coming in are fleeing the messes they made at home. You probably should get out, before they make the same messes there.
- grapeskin 4y ago
  (Comparatively) Rich people unaffected by a country's local social and economic woes want to live there because it's cheap and they can live like kings. Locals want to get out because costs are rising and they're used like slaves. You'll find similar problems in SE Asian countries. People want to escape their oppressive governments and lift their family out of crushing poverty and unaffordable living. People from North America and Europe see those countries as basically Disney World--just a world of beaches, forests, $1 meals and $100/month apartments, and they're more than happy to move in. Admittedly, I'm a person who also absolutely loved Vietnam (as a middle class white dude who has zero risk of ever running into political or social issues there and could afford anything I want easily), but I know countless Vietnamese people who have recently emigrated from there and hope they'll never have to return.
  - nine_zeros 4y ago
    This is understated. Most people leaving cheap countries are leaving because they hate their own oppressive governments. Most people moving into cheap countries are going there to live a lifestyle that in unachievable to them in their home countries.
  - vmception 4y ago
    I’ve thought a lot about that, and most “oppressive governments” only show their face if you are poor. Same for governments known as non-oppressive to be honest. I was thinking about Monaco, small town, but the actions are a high surveillance state with rigid rules, a monarchy. There simply are no poor people, but if there were, it would be seem as an oppressive autocrat (they have a congress/parlaiment, just like other autocrats do these days). But there aren't poor people, and its more like a perpetual gala.
    - smw 4y ago
      If there are no poor people, who does the housekeeping in the hotel rooms? Or deals baccarat?
      - djbebs 4y ago
- wenc 4y ago
  I've visited Portugal (Lisbon, Sintra, Porto, Guimarães). It has all the elements of an aspirational European destination minus the cost. I speak Portuguese (Brazilian) but most Portuguese people in the cities all seem to speak good English. Portugal is beautiful, has temperate weather and long coastline, really good clean food (sopa de legumes, leitão, sardinhas, etc), friendly people and easy access to the rest of the EU. And unlike traditionally aspirational places like Italy or Spain which are harder to move to unless you have the right lineage (for getting a passport), Portugal is within reach of middle class Americans. That said, I was told that salaries aren't high for locals. For what it's worth, most younger people in Italy and Spain don't think their economic life is all that great either. The money seems to be in northern/central Europe, i.e. well, mostly Germany. There are many places in the world where it's nice to visit but not to live, I would say, Portugal is the opposite. I could realistically see myself living there.
- djbebs 4y ago
  The people in the country don't have access to that favorable tax regime ;)

by nazavo 4y ago

jorl17 4y ago

It's amazing that people within the country (I live in Portugal and am portuguese) mostly want to get out, and so many people seem to want to get in (to work outside). I genuinely don't 100% get it.

pydry 4y ago
I noticed when I last visited that many uber rides were like, 2.50 eur. Kind of makes sense in that context. If youve got money the country is great. If you need to earn it it sucks.
maxlamb 4y ago
I think the reason is that the majority of people moving in to Portugal are nomads who already have high salaries, and the Portuguese trying to get out either have low salaries or are unemployed.
- jorl17 4y ago
  Most of my friends are very much employed, pretty smart (they'd get a job pretty much anywhere, probably FAANG, too) and they are either out of the country or want to get out. In general, they want higher salaries (like you mentioned), but there also seems to be a clear disdain for most of the portuguese cultural heritage, to be honest. This might be an ecochamber (I'd put money on it being the case) but most people "around me" who are in "the tech world" are pretty much diametrically opposed to most portuguese customs and culture. They don't really identify with the country, the history, the religion, the folklore, the politics, the sports...and if you add the income disparity to it, it makes sense that they want to leave. If not for the will of my Significant Others throughout the years, I would have definitely left a looooong time ago. (Man, I find it somewhat atrocious how much we like to tell the great stories of how we went and stole, raped, killed and enslaved during the time of the discoveries, all for our own pleasure (and that of our religion). I guess I can somewhat frame it in its time, but you will never hear me talk about our "great accomplishments" in that regard. I'm deeply ashamed of them, not proud.)
  - Kaze404 4y ago
    > I find it somewhat atrocious how much we like to tell the great stories of how we went and stole, raped, killed and enslaved during the time of the discoveries, all for our own pleasure (and that of our religion). Is that really the general consensus over there? I'm trying to think of a way someone would rationalize decimating entire tribes over wood as a good thing but I'm coming up short.
    - groby_b 4y ago
      Have you met Americans? And the myth of "conquering the West"? Heck, we just had a president who thought Andrew Jackson was the best thing since sliced bread - and that guy is sort of the textbook definition of a cheerleader for genocide and slavery. So, yes, people rationalize a whole lot of truly horrible stuff if it was "their" group doing the horrible stuff. Edit: To be clear, that's not specifically about Americans or Portuguese. The "when we did it, it was good, but otherwise it's horrible" thing is a pretty universal trait.
    - kmonsen 4y ago
      My ancestors were Vikings. We all have skeletons in the closet
    - fileeditview 4y ago
      In my experience people mostly don't really think about these things too deeply. They see it as an epoch where their country was successful, proud, expanding etc. They look at this very superficially and don't think about the harm caused. I think this becomes more prevalent the poorer/less significant the country is today compared to their great past. It's the "good old times" phenomenon.
    - pjc50 4y ago
      > rationalize decimating entire tribes over wood "Look at this cool palace we built and all the rare and exotic wood we used!" "Where did you get the wood again?" (See the general argument about decolonisation and re-contextualising within European countries, and fights over things like the Edward Colston statue)
whazor 4y ago
I do. If you got a remote gig, you can have a high salary (>100k€). Whereas if you just graduated from a Portugese university and a starting salary could be around 20k€. If you move within EU, you could boost your salary to 50k€. Portugal is an amazing country with great food, people, and weather.
throwawayboise 4y ago
The people coming in are fleeing the messes they made at home. You probably should get out, before they make the same messes there.
grapeskin 4y ago
(Comparatively) Rich people unaffected by a country's local social and economic woes want to live there because it's cheap and they can live like kings. Locals want to get out because costs are rising and they're used like slaves. You'll find similar problems in SE Asian countries. People want to escape their oppressive governments and lift their family out of crushing poverty and unaffordable living. People from North America and Europe see those countries as basically Disney World--just a world of beaches, forests, $1 meals and $100/month apartments, and they're more than happy to move in. Admittedly, I'm a person who also absolutely loved Vietnam (as a middle class white dude who has zero risk of ever running into political or social issues there and could afford anything I want easily), but I know countless Vietnamese people who have recently emigrated from there and hope they'll never have to return.
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  This is understated. Most people leaving cheap countries are leaving because they hate their own oppressive governments. Most people moving into cheap countries are going there to live a lifestyle that in unachievable to them in their home countries.
- vmception 4y ago
  I’ve thought a lot about that, and most “oppressive governments” only show their face if you are poor. Same for governments known as non-oppressive to be honest. I was thinking about Monaco, small town, but the actions are a high surveillance state with rigid rules, a monarchy. There simply are no poor people, but if there were, it would be seem as an oppressive autocrat (they have a congress/parlaiment, just like other autocrats do these days). But there aren't poor people, and its more like a perpetual gala.
  - smw 4y ago
    If there are no poor people, who does the housekeeping in the hotel rooms? Or deals baccarat?
    - djbebs 4y ago
wenc 4y ago
I've visited Portugal (Lisbon, Sintra, Porto, Guimarães). It has all the elements of an aspirational European destination minus the cost. I speak Portuguese (Brazilian) but most Portuguese people in the cities all seem to speak good English. Portugal is beautiful, has temperate weather and long coastline, really good clean food (sopa de legumes, leitão, sardinhas, etc), friendly people and easy access to the rest of the EU. And unlike traditionally aspirational places like Italy or Spain which are harder to move to unless you have the right lineage (for getting a passport), Portugal is within reach of middle class Americans. That said, I was told that salaries aren't high for locals. For what it's worth, most younger people in Italy and Spain don't think their economic life is all that great either. The money seems to be in northern/central Europe, i.e. well, mostly Germany. There are many places in the world where it's nice to visit but not to live, I would say, Portugal is the opposite. I could realistically see myself living there.
djbebs 4y ago
The people in the country don't have access to that favorable tax regime ;)