4 ms·

As opposed to the near limitless devices that support bluetooth now? Including most refrigerators sold today?

gtvwill 4y ago
Bluetooth still is flakey af. Astounds me how bad it is still. Audio dropouts on the reg. Terrible documentation for design n dev also. Legit PITA technology.
- stu2b50 4y ago
  It’s certainly not a technology without flaws, but being overly locked down is definitely not one of them, no? Too many things have Bluetooth now, rather than the reverse. Makes the argument that the headphone jack was removed for lock-in reasons pretty weak when the replacement will probably start coming with your produce in a couple of years. There is certainly no lack of Bluetooth headphones you can buy, even if they have all of the flaws above. The lock-in is not the problem.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    A lack of lockdown does not absolve the adoption of shit standards.
    - philistine 4y ago
      Yeah but that wasn't OP's argument. Their argument was that Apple removed the headphones to lockdown their phones. Bluetooth can be crap, and also the antithesis of an Apple controlled standard.
      - falcolas 4y ago
        May I point you at the MFi program? Its a program which prevents some accessories from being used with iOS without registering with (and paying) Apple. One of the biggest usecases for the 2.5mm jack was the square cc readers. Guess what has to be MFi certified now?
- lelandfe 4y ago
  All 4 Apple laptops I've owned in recent years have had significant latency with my Sony WH-1000XM4's too. Like, sometimes over a full second. I have to regularly disconnect and reconnect to address. And then Apple removed Bluetooth Explorer from Xcode 12, meaning I have no real way to even diagnose that on the newest macOS releases.
  - philistine 4y ago
    Depending on what codec your headphones use when talking to a Mac, a mere second of latency is a good result. The only thing you can do is use apps like IINA which have delay features to allow you to account for the latency (I needed to use sound delay recently when watching a movie that fell off the back of a truck, even with Airpods). The future might be brighter, with Apple seemingly designing its own bespoke wireless sound standard to support uncompressed and latency-free headphones.
    - lelandfe 4y ago
      I guess? But I did not used to suffer these problems, they don't occur on my Windows or mobile devices, and they're temporarily addressed on macOS by reconnecting.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    At the risk of being conspiratorial, does this latency exist for Apple bluetooth devices?
    - mingus88 4y ago
      There's no conspiracy. Apple has their own proprietary bluetooth chips, the W1, and it pairs better with Airpods than with any other brand's headsets. https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/what-is-apple-w1-bluetooth-chip-headphones-explained/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/what-is-apple-w1-bluetooth-...
- candiddevmike 4y ago
  Bluetooth also cannot deliver HD audio and act as a microphone at the same time.
  - chupasaurus 4y ago
    > HD audio Lossless 96khz/24bit one? It can't do that without microphone either.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    But this is like complaining that 'the road does not support two lanes of traffic and traffic both in directions at the same time'.
    - yxhuvud 4y ago
      If that is needed for the situation at hand, like it is with headphones, why would it be unreasonable to complain about a road that doesn't fulfill the basic requirements?
      - OJFord 4y ago
        What? However many lanes you put in a road, it'll always be true that you can have more traffic going in one direction if you disallow any in the other.

Bluetooth still is flakey af. Astounds me how bad it is still. Audio dropouts on the reg. Terrible documentation for design n dev also. Legit PITA technology.

stu2b50 4y ago
It’s certainly not a technology without flaws, but being overly locked down is definitely not one of them, no? Too many things have Bluetooth now, rather than the reverse. Makes the argument that the headphone jack was removed for lock-in reasons pretty weak when the replacement will probably start coming with your produce in a couple of years. There is certainly no lack of Bluetooth headphones you can buy, even if they have all of the flaws above. The lock-in is not the problem.
- falcolas 4y ago
  A lack of lockdown does not absolve the adoption of shit standards.
  - philistine 4y ago
    Yeah but that wasn't OP's argument. Their argument was that Apple removed the headphones to lockdown their phones. Bluetooth can be crap, and also the antithesis of an Apple controlled standard.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      May I point you at the MFi program? Its a program which prevents some accessories from being used with iOS without registering with (and paying) Apple. One of the biggest usecases for the 2.5mm jack was the square cc readers. Guess what has to be MFi certified now?
lelandfe 4y ago
All 4 Apple laptops I've owned in recent years have had significant latency with my Sony WH-1000XM4's too. Like, sometimes over a full second. I have to regularly disconnect and reconnect to address. And then Apple removed Bluetooth Explorer from Xcode 12, meaning I have no real way to even diagnose that on the newest macOS releases.
- philistine 4y ago
  Depending on what codec your headphones use when talking to a Mac, a mere second of latency is a good result. The only thing you can do is use apps like IINA which have delay features to allow you to account for the latency (I needed to use sound delay recently when watching a movie that fell off the back of a truck, even with Airpods). The future might be brighter, with Apple seemingly designing its own bespoke wireless sound standard to support uncompressed and latency-free headphones.
  - lelandfe 4y ago
    I guess? But I did not used to suffer these problems, they don't occur on my Windows or mobile devices, and they're temporarily addressed on macOS by reconnecting.
- dylan604 4y ago
  At the risk of being conspiratorial, does this latency exist for Apple bluetooth devices?
  - mingus88 4y ago
    There's no conspiracy. Apple has their own proprietary bluetooth chips, the W1, and it pairs better with Airpods than with any other brand's headsets. https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/what-is-apple-w1-bluetooth-chip-headphones-explained/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/what-is-apple-w1-bluetooth-...
candiddevmike 4y ago
Bluetooth also cannot deliver HD audio and act as a microphone at the same time.
- chupasaurus 4y ago
  > HD audio Lossless 96khz/24bit one? It can't do that without microphone either.
- OJFord 4y ago
  But this is like complaining that 'the road does not support two lanes of traffic and traffic both in directions at the same time'.
  - yxhuvud 4y ago
    If that is needed for the situation at hand, like it is with headphones, why would it be unreasonable to complain about a road that doesn't fulfill the basic requirements?
    - OJFord 4y ago
      What? However many lanes you put in a road, it'll always be true that you can have more traffic going in one direction if you disallow any in the other.