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They want to get rid of the headphone jack because it is a brilliant bit of open hardware design. You can plug a device with a headphone jack into near limitles

They want to get rid of the headphone jack because it is a brilliant bit of open hardware design. You can plug a device with a headphone jack into near limitless devices and that is a problem for profit when you can force people onto bluetooth and break compatibility when it is convenient.

babyshake 4y ago
Does it also take up a lot of precious space relative to it's function for the average user mostly using Bluetooth now?
- nathcd 4y ago
  Is the average user mostly using Bluetooth now? Genuinely curious if there's any empirical data. And regardless of the numbers, I also wonder at what rate people are actively switching to Bluetooth because they want to vs. because that's what their preferred phone line is forcing them into.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Every time I do an on the street observation, I see that wireless headphones are pretty much universal. It would be 100 wireless to one wired user. Sure, some of that may be because the jacks are removed, but the average person has chosen to use wireless instead of the $9 adapter or picking a phone with a jack. The average user does not care at all. HN has a tendency to attribute everything to some global conspiracy from the elite’s to make you use technology their way. It’s inconceivable that most people just don’t care about flac quality audio or having to charge their AirPods once a week.
hhh 4y ago
Then why is USB so prevalent in (almost) every device?
- MisterSandman 4y ago
  USB devices can still be controlled by the OS. iPad has USB C but you can't use everything on it, some external SSDs don't work, displays don't work etc. You can still control it. 3.5mm has one purpose, but you have no control over what is using that audio device. Less control = Less $$$ to be made. NOBODY bought Apple earphones after-market before AirPods were a thing, and even though the iPad has a USB C, most people are buying apple peripherals due to locks.
  - wilsonnb3 4y ago
    Nobody is going to be removing support for lightning or USB c to 3.5mm adapters with DACs, so this point is kind of moot. No difference between having an internal 3.5mm jack and one connected via USB.
    - artificialLimbs 4y ago
      Breaking or losing a dongle is nearly infinitely easier and more likely than breaking or losing the in-phone 3.5mm jack.
      - 8note 4y ago
        I break both with similar frequency
  - hhh 4y ago
    External displays do work on iPadOS. I use an HP USB-C to Displayport adapter today.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Because it saves money/increases profit by not having to include a charger.
stu2b50 4y ago
As opposed to the near limitless devices that support bluetooth now? Including most refrigerators sold today?
- gtvwill 4y ago
  Bluetooth still is flakey af. Astounds me how bad it is still. Audio dropouts on the reg. Terrible documentation for design n dev also. Legit PITA technology.
  - stu2b50 4y ago
    It’s certainly not a technology without flaws, but being overly locked down is definitely not one of them, no? Too many things have Bluetooth now, rather than the reverse. Makes the argument that the headphone jack was removed for lock-in reasons pretty weak when the replacement will probably start coming with your produce in a couple of years. There is certainly no lack of Bluetooth headphones you can buy, even if they have all of the flaws above. The lock-in is not the problem.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      A lack of lockdown does not absolve the adoption of shit standards.
      - philistine 4y ago
        Yeah but that wasn't OP's argument. Their argument was that Apple removed the headphones to lockdown their phones. Bluetooth can be crap, and also the antithesis of an Apple controlled standard.
        falcolas 4y ago
        May I point you at the MFi program? Its a program which prevents some accessories from being used with iOS without registering with (and paying) Apple. One of the biggest usecases for the 2.5mm jack was the square cc readers. Guess what has to be MFi certified now?
Johnny555 4y ago
I hated that my Pixel 3 had no headphone jack, I swore I'd never buy a phone without one, but when my Nexus 5X broke and I needed a phone, I got the Pixel 3. I didn't even realize it didn't have a headphone jack until I got it. It came with a USB-C->headphone dongle and then I discovered that USB->headphone dongles were cheap, so I bought one for each of the headphones I used regularly, and it was really not a big deal. But now I've switched almost fully to bluetooth headphones, except for my old expensive Etymotics that I use on airplanes since they are small and easy to pack, and the in-ear style is great at blocking noise.
- 8note 4y ago
  I remember those. They all broke within a few days of use, and google sent me like 20 of them after 6 months, because they weren't very good at tracking requests. I'll never get another phone without a headphone jack after that I have noticed that the main reason my phone screen breaks is due to headphone wires though. It'd be great to have a magnetic equivalent to the wired headphone
wilsonnb3 4y ago
They want to get rid of it because the inside of a smartphone is very space constrained and they can use that space for other things. Considering you can use a lightning or usb c to 3.5mm with a built in DAC that sounds as good or better than the ones they were putting in the phones, the 3.5mm jack was pretty redundant.
- rendaw 4y ago
  I mean, they've had enough space inside to keep it until now...
  - ReactiveJelly 4y ago
    No, I like this idea. Strip the phone down to the bare minimum. Obviously they just want me to buy a separate pocket PC instead, and only use the phone for emergency calls and businesses that don't have websites. Back to the dumb-phone days.
    - mingus88 4y ago
      Not sure if you're joking but I bought a media player and a point-and-shoot camera within the past few years. I wanted to reduce the influence of a smartphone on my life. They're both next level when compared the the capabilities of a smartphone. The camera has Zeiss lenses, has amazing optical zoom, all kinds of manual and automatic modes, and takes far better night shots than any phone. The media player's battery lasts weeks, plays every file type, and has actual hardware playback buttons and a volume knob. Oh, and it drives all kinds of nice headphones perfectly well. And neither of these devices interrupts me with notifications or demands any amount of my attention. I don't think I'll get another smartphone until I absolutely have no choice. It's better for my mental health anyway to not have some magic device that I rely on for everything and I can't stop pulling out of my pocket whenever my brain needs stimulation.
      - zimpenfish 4y ago
        > And neither of these devices interrupts me with notifications Not to take away from your valid experience but my phone doesn't interrupt me with notifications because I turned off everything I am not 100% bothered about (which leaves just a couple of messengers, phone calls, and bank transaction notifications) and all those are silenced 2000-0800 (or during workouts.)
uejfiweun 4y ago
It's crazy to me that the modern headphone jack has in some form been in use since the 1800s. And now the lack of competition is causing this incredible invention to disappear, in favor of shitty bluetooth buds (with the exception of AirPod Pros which are great).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- eternityforest 4y ago
  And Anker P3s, and probably a ton of others. The vast majority of wired earbuds are so awful they are almost a crime. Passive ones have no cancellation and very few have passive isolation. Even moderate background noise makes them unusable without dangerous sound levels. Phone earbuds are mostly used on the go. Having a cable is way too much of an inconvenience in the age where Bluetooth exists. Especially if it reduces the waterproofing or increases cost to add the jack.

babyshake 4y ago

Does it also take up a lot of precious space relative to it's function for the average user mostly using Bluetooth now?

nathcd 4y ago
Is the average user mostly using Bluetooth now? Genuinely curious if there's any empirical data. And regardless of the numbers, I also wonder at what rate people are actively switching to Bluetooth because they want to vs. because that's what their preferred phone line is forcing them into.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Every time I do an on the street observation, I see that wireless headphones are pretty much universal. It would be 100 wireless to one wired user. Sure, some of that may be because the jacks are removed, but the average person has chosen to use wireless instead of the $9 adapter or picking a phone with a jack. The average user does not care at all. HN has a tendency to attribute everything to some global conspiracy from the elite’s to make you use technology their way. It’s inconceivable that most people just don’t care about flac quality audio or having to charge their AirPods once a week.

hhh 4y ago

Then why is USB so prevalent in (almost) every device?

MisterSandman 4y ago
USB devices can still be controlled by the OS. iPad has USB C but you can't use everything on it, some external SSDs don't work, displays don't work etc. You can still control it. 3.5mm has one purpose, but you have no control over what is using that audio device. Less control = Less $$$ to be made. NOBODY bought Apple earphones after-market before AirPods were a thing, and even though the iPad has a USB C, most people are buying apple peripherals due to locks.
- wilsonnb3 4y ago
  Nobody is going to be removing support for lightning or USB c to 3.5mm adapters with DACs, so this point is kind of moot. No difference between having an internal 3.5mm jack and one connected via USB.
  - artificialLimbs 4y ago
    Breaking or losing a dongle is nearly infinitely easier and more likely than breaking or losing the in-phone 3.5mm jack.
    - 8note 4y ago
      I break both with similar frequency
- hhh 4y ago
  External displays do work on iPadOS. I use an HP USB-C to Displayport adapter today.
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
Because it saves money/increases profit by not having to include a charger.

stu2b50 4y ago

As opposed to the near limitless devices that support bluetooth now? Including most refrigerators sold today?

gtvwill 4y ago
Bluetooth still is flakey af. Astounds me how bad it is still. Audio dropouts on the reg. Terrible documentation for design n dev also. Legit PITA technology.
- stu2b50 4y ago
  It’s certainly not a technology without flaws, but being overly locked down is definitely not one of them, no? Too many things have Bluetooth now, rather than the reverse. Makes the argument that the headphone jack was removed for lock-in reasons pretty weak when the replacement will probably start coming with your produce in a couple of years. There is certainly no lack of Bluetooth headphones you can buy, even if they have all of the flaws above. The lock-in is not the problem.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    A lack of lockdown does not absolve the adoption of shit standards.
    - philistine 4y ago
      Yeah but that wasn't OP's argument. Their argument was that Apple removed the headphones to lockdown their phones. Bluetooth can be crap, and also the antithesis of an Apple controlled standard.
      - falcolas 4y ago
        May I point you at the MFi program? Its a program which prevents some accessories from being used with iOS without registering with (and paying) Apple. One of the biggest usecases for the 2.5mm jack was the square cc readers. Guess what has to be MFi certified now?

Johnny555 4y ago

I hated that my Pixel 3 had no headphone jack, I swore I'd never buy a phone without one, but when my Nexus 5X broke and I needed a phone, I got the Pixel 3. I didn't even realize it didn't have a headphone jack until I got it. It came with a USB-C->headphone dongle and then I discovered that USB->headphone dongles were cheap, so I bought one for each of the headphones I used regularly, and it was really not a big deal. But now I've switched almost fully to bluetooth headphones, except for my old expensive Etymotics that I use on airplanes since they are small and easy to pack, and the in-ear style is great at blocking noise.

8note 4y ago
I remember those. They all broke within a few days of use, and google sent me like 20 of them after 6 months, because they weren't very good at tracking requests. I'll never get another phone without a headphone jack after that I have noticed that the main reason my phone screen breaks is due to headphone wires though. It'd be great to have a magnetic equivalent to the wired headphone

wilsonnb3 4y ago

They want to get rid of it because the inside of a smartphone is very space constrained and they can use that space for other things. Considering you can use a lightning or usb c to 3.5mm with a built in DAC that sounds as good or better than the ones they were putting in the phones, the 3.5mm jack was pretty redundant.

rendaw 4y ago
I mean, they've had enough space inside to keep it until now...
- ReactiveJelly 4y ago
  No, I like this idea. Strip the phone down to the bare minimum. Obviously they just want me to buy a separate pocket PC instead, and only use the phone for emergency calls and businesses that don't have websites. Back to the dumb-phone days.
  - mingus88 4y ago
    Not sure if you're joking but I bought a media player and a point-and-shoot camera within the past few years. I wanted to reduce the influence of a smartphone on my life. They're both next level when compared the the capabilities of a smartphone. The camera has Zeiss lenses, has amazing optical zoom, all kinds of manual and automatic modes, and takes far better night shots than any phone. The media player's battery lasts weeks, plays every file type, and has actual hardware playback buttons and a volume knob. Oh, and it drives all kinds of nice headphones perfectly well. And neither of these devices interrupts me with notifications or demands any amount of my attention. I don't think I'll get another smartphone until I absolutely have no choice. It's better for my mental health anyway to not have some magic device that I rely on for everything and I can't stop pulling out of my pocket whenever my brain needs stimulation.
    - zimpenfish 4y ago
      > And neither of these devices interrupts me with notifications Not to take away from your valid experience but my phone doesn't interrupt me with notifications because I turned off everything I am not 100% bothered about (which leaves just a couple of messengers, phone calls, and bank transaction notifications) and all those are silenced 2000-0800 (or during workouts.)

uejfiweun 4y ago

It's crazy to me that the modern headphone jack has in some form been in use since the 1800s. And now the lack of competition is causing this incredible invention to disappear, in favor of shitty bluetooth buds (with the exception of AirPod Pros which are great).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
eternityforest 4y ago
And Anker P3s, and probably a ton of others. The vast majority of wired earbuds are so awful they are almost a crime. Passive ones have no cancellation and very few have passive isolation. Even moderate background noise makes them unusable without dangerous sound levels. Phone earbuds are mostly used on the go. Having a cable is way too much of an inconvenience in the age where Bluetooth exists. Especially if it reduces the waterproofing or increases cost to add the jack.