3 ms·

People like to put up binary choices. Bitcoin Vs. Dollars, Gold Vs. Yuan, Private bank money vs. really bad managed money supply. I am in the opinion that we s

People like to put up binary choices. Bitcoin Vs. Dollars, Gold Vs. Yuan, Private bank money vs. really bad managed money supply. I am in the opinion that we should experiment with models other than a bunch of academics with no real practical experience getting together every month and deciding on the fate of the world economy. I am sure we could come up with something better.

pa7ch 4y ago
Please propose a theory of change then instead of handwaving[1]. We need effective people to make the world better. I've seen lots of complaining about the fed from crypto people but almost no theory on how to manage our economy and incentive systems to bring a more prosperous world. [1] http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/theoryofchange http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/theoryofchange
- azth 4y ago
  Look at how Islam addresses these problems. From prohibiting interest, to having a built in "wealth tax" (Zakat), to prohibition of selling what you don't own, to no gambling, etc. Solid principles that work.
- jonathan-adly 4y ago
  The whole crypto system is basically a real, evolving mechanism of evaluating different monetary systems. Don't like it how Bitcoin is structured? Fork it and see how the market reacts. Wants a centralized version of Ethereum when checks and balances? Israel is building that. You can even build an Islamic monetary structure enforced by smart contracts (addressing sibling comment: historically Islamic financial systems collapsed because they are enforced by corruptible people). Like all things, most experiments would fail (and most people shouldn't put their savings in experiments!). We might end up with even a worse monetary system (unlikely imho, because I believe the markets are free to accept and reject those experiments). I won't fight it though - the markets are brutal, and in time, kills bad ideas. I do want the experimentations to happen though!
azth 4y ago
The Islamic financial model has not been looked at properly by non-Muslims. It works, but it won't allow a few people to get rich by manipulating the market or by lending out money as we have in the rest of the world today.
- cableshaft 4y ago
  Considering it forbids making interest, that would be a seismic shift, although it is interesting and worth looking into. Wikipedia makes it sound like Muslim countries are having difficulties sticking with the 'no interest' premise, though: "Islamic banking and finance — the industry built around avoiding interest and other financial practices found in violation of sharia (Islamic law) — has been both praised and criticized by observers. The industry has been praised for turning a "theory" into an industry that has grown to about $2 trillion in size; for attracting banking users whose religious objections have kept them away from conventional banking services, drawing non-Muslim bankers into the field, and (according to other supporters) introducing a more stable, less risky form of finance. However, the industry has also been criticized for ignoring its "basic philosophy" and moved in the wrong direction over the decades — leading both outsiders and rank and file Muslims to question it. This has happened first by the sidelining the original finance method advocated by promoters — risk-sharing finance — in favor of fixed-markup finance of purchases (particularly murabaha), and then by distorting the rules of that fixed-markup murabaha, effectively delivering conventional cash interest loans following conventional interest rates, but disguised with "ruses and subterfuges" and burdened with "higher costs, bigger risks". Other issues/complaints raised include a lack of effort by the industry to help small traders and the poor; the question of how to deal with inflation, late payments, the lack of hedging of currencies and rates or sharia-compliant places to park short term funds for liquidity; the non-Muslim ownership of much of Islamic banking, and the concentration of what ownership is in Muslim hands." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenges_in_Islamic_finance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenges_in_Islamic_finance
  - azth 4y ago
    Islamic finance goes back way before the present day manifestation. Many "Islamic finance providers" aren't Islamic FYI. So when reading a wikipedia article or any other source, that must be taken into consideration. Yes, prohibiting interest is a seismic shift, but at the end of the day, it's going to be better off for everyone. Islam lays outside the capital-communist spectrum, and is basically the best of all worlds.

pa7ch 4y ago

Please propose a theory of change then instead of handwaving[1]. We need effective people to make the world better. I've seen lots of complaining about the fed from crypto people but almost no theory on how to manage our economy and incentive systems to bring a more prosperous world. [1] http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/theoryofchange http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/theoryofchange

azth 4y ago
Look at how Islam addresses these problems. From prohibiting interest, to having a built in "wealth tax" (Zakat), to prohibition of selling what you don't own, to no gambling, etc. Solid principles that work.
jonathan-adly 4y ago
The whole crypto system is basically a real, evolving mechanism of evaluating different monetary systems. Don't like it how Bitcoin is structured? Fork it and see how the market reacts. Wants a centralized version of Ethereum when checks and balances? Israel is building that. You can even build an Islamic monetary structure enforced by smart contracts (addressing sibling comment: historically Islamic financial systems collapsed because they are enforced by corruptible people). Like all things, most experiments would fail (and most people shouldn't put their savings in experiments!). We might end up with even a worse monetary system (unlikely imho, because I believe the markets are free to accept and reject those experiments). I won't fight it though - the markets are brutal, and in time, kills bad ideas. I do want the experimentations to happen though!

azth 4y ago

The Islamic financial model has not been looked at properly by non-Muslims. It works, but it won't allow a few people to get rich by manipulating the market or by lending out money as we have in the rest of the world today.

cableshaft 4y ago
Considering it forbids making interest, that would be a seismic shift, although it is interesting and worth looking into. Wikipedia makes it sound like Muslim countries are having difficulties sticking with the 'no interest' premise, though: "Islamic banking and finance — the industry built around avoiding interest and other financial practices found in violation of sharia (Islamic law) — has been both praised and criticized by observers. The industry has been praised for turning a "theory" into an industry that has grown to about $2 trillion in size; for attracting banking users whose religious objections have kept them away from conventional banking services, drawing non-Muslim bankers into the field, and (according to other supporters) introducing a more stable, less risky form of finance. However, the industry has also been criticized for ignoring its "basic philosophy" and moved in the wrong direction over the decades — leading both outsiders and rank and file Muslims to question it. This has happened first by the sidelining the original finance method advocated by promoters — risk-sharing finance — in favor of fixed-markup finance of purchases (particularly murabaha), and then by distorting the rules of that fixed-markup murabaha, effectively delivering conventional cash interest loans following conventional interest rates, but disguised with "ruses and subterfuges" and burdened with "higher costs, bigger risks". Other issues/complaints raised include a lack of effort by the industry to help small traders and the poor; the question of how to deal with inflation, late payments, the lack of hedging of currencies and rates or sharia-compliant places to park short term funds for liquidity; the non-Muslim ownership of much of Islamic banking, and the concentration of what ownership is in Muslim hands." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenges_in_Islamic_finance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenges_in_Islamic_finance
- azth 4y ago
  Islamic finance goes back way before the present day manifestation. Many "Islamic finance providers" aren't Islamic FYI. So when reading a wikipedia article or any other source, that must be taken into consideration. Yes, prohibiting interest is a seismic shift, but at the end of the day, it's going to be better off for everyone. Islam lays outside the capital-communist spectrum, and is basically the best of all worlds.