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The best poker ai, as far as I’m aware based on things shown on hn, don’t consider past opponent behavior when making decisions. It’s effectively just a lookup

The best poker ai, as far as I’m aware based on things shown on hn, don’t consider past opponent behavior when making decisions. It’s effectively just a lookup table of hands and bets. Not perfect play but generally better than humans.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
Better than humans at all levels, or your average player? Are you suggesting that every Casino publishes an AI derived win rate for poker by law?
- HWR_14 4y ago
  Perfect play, by definition, evens out. If everyone plays perfectly, then the ev should be zero (modified by position around the table). So it should balance to zero if everyone plays an equal number of hands from every position. The payoff would be adjusted by the rake.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    But that is a wildly inaccurate assumption for any real table. I still wouldn't call it perfect play because as soon as someone adopts a fixed strategy, the meta game shifts and it is no longer optimal. If anything, the assumption is equal play, not perfect play
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      To your question above, the answer is better than all levels. The meta idea is what I first thought. It’s hard to evaluate though. The ai does not adapt, but continues to beat pros, who are welcome to try and adapt. I’m curious if there are some zany cheese strats against this kind of AI that work reliably but the answer may be no. The only really practical tool you have that could work is a crazy bluff, but I doubt that’s sustainable. It doesn’t really matter if perfect play is considered though. Games should be rated assuming equal competence. It’s not misleading if in fact your turn out to be a worse player in a game of skill.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      Perfect play would take into account the meta game as well. My point is that if the casinos have to post odds, the only odds on a poker table are flat (any deviations from 0 coming from skill differences) minus any rake (with maybe some slight variation if the button doesn't go down an even number of times). The fact that we cannot define perfect play is irrelevant.

s1artibartfast 4y ago

Better than humans at all levels, or your average player? Are you suggesting that every Casino publishes an AI derived win rate for poker by law?

HWR_14 4y ago
Perfect play, by definition, evens out. If everyone plays perfectly, then the ev should be zero (modified by position around the table). So it should balance to zero if everyone plays an equal number of hands from every position. The payoff would be adjusted by the rake.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  But that is a wildly inaccurate assumption for any real table. I still wouldn't call it perfect play because as soon as someone adopts a fixed strategy, the meta game shifts and it is no longer optimal. If anything, the assumption is equal play, not perfect play
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    To your question above, the answer is better than all levels. The meta idea is what I first thought. It’s hard to evaluate though. The ai does not adapt, but continues to beat pros, who are welcome to try and adapt. I’m curious if there are some zany cheese strats against this kind of AI that work reliably but the answer may be no. The only really practical tool you have that could work is a crazy bluff, but I doubt that’s sustainable. It doesn’t really matter if perfect play is considered though. Games should be rated assuming equal competence. It’s not misleading if in fact your turn out to be a worse player in a game of skill.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    Perfect play would take into account the meta game as well. My point is that if the casinos have to post odds, the only odds on a poker table are flat (any deviations from 0 coming from skill differences) minus any rake (with maybe some slight variation if the button doesn't go down an even number of times). The fact that we cannot define perfect play is irrelevant.