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I've always been annoyed they replaced "Philosopher's Stone" with "Sorcerer's Stone" in the title of the Harry Potter novel, for American consumption. It feels
by mordechai9000 4y ago
I've always been annoyed they replaced "Philosopher's Stone" with "Sorcerer's Stone" in the title of the Harry Potter novel, for American consumption. It feels kinda of insulting, frankly.
I recently and randomly picked up a Japanese book, 1Q84. I was enjoying it quite a bit, when I started thinking about the cultural references it contained - it has numerous references to Western classical music and Sean Connery. It worried me that they might have actually replaced Japanese music and actors with western "equivalents". But of course, there has been a great deal of cultural cross pollination, so it is no more unusual for a Japanese person to be aware of Sean Connery or The Brothers Grimm than it is for me. I didn't want to spoil the book by reading reviews before I read the book itself, but I skimmed enough to gather the Sean Connery part, at least, seems to be original source material.
Part of the attraction in reading a book like that is the fact that it is a Japanese book. It feels demeaning to have take that away because they worry the foreigness of it will be disturbing or unwelcomed by American readers.
- thematrixturtle 4y ago1Q84's author, Haruki Murakami, is a notable fan of both jazz and (Western) classical music. And Connery is well known in Japan, at least partly because his Bond classic You Only Live Twice was set there.
- tristam_shandy 4y agoHaruki Murakami is particular that way. Western culture references are the reason he gets "exported" so much. But that cultural cross pollination isn't as ubiquitous as one would think.
- mordechai9000 4y agoI wonder if the western cultural references are part of the attraction to Japanese readers, the same way I am attracted to reading a book with a Japanese setting.
- astrange 4y agoHe used to be an English-to-Japanese translator, so his books tend to read like they were translated from English. That might be another reason they're so popular outside the country. In fact they're so popular that everyone seems to have the idea he's going to get a Nobel Prize someday, but I don't see why they'd give a prize to a novelist who only writes "women are so mysterious, truly men will never understand them" novels like him.
- Freeboots 4y agoSorcerer's Stone is particularly annoying i agree. Not like philosophers' stone is an existing mythos highly relevant to the story or anything. Another that bugged me was Northern Lights -> The Golden Compass. Apparently NL was too abstract for American audiences? Oh and Harlequin -> The Archer's Tale.
- _23sd 4y ago>Northern Lights -> The Golden Compass According to Pullman that one wasn't really about an attempt at cultural adaptation, the title had been in flux and the US publisher had taken an early name for the upcoming series, "The Golden Compasses", and run with it before he settled on Northern Lights.
- Freeboots 4y agoOh thats interesting, cheers
- morelisp 4y agoMoreover, "The Golden Compass" was illustrated with the wrong type of compass.
- auxbuss 4y agore: The Golden Compass (sic) Not only did the American editors change the title, but the device in question – the alethiometer, which is not a compass – is made of brass not gold in the original text. The US editors basically changed it to gold to fit their created title.
- Freeboots 4y agoI never noticed that! Did they really change it to gold?
- dkdbejwi383 4y agoWell, they didn't translate the pun in the title of 1Q84, at least, so they at least have some respect for the reader.
- _23sd 4y agoI think the attitude that Japanese popular culture should ideally be completely rewritten for overseas release (a la Godzilla) is still common within Japan itself, but thankfully US publishers and film distributors have mostly realized audiences don't want that. It's still enough of an issue that you're right to be cautious, though 1Q84 is a big enough title that the translation would be heavily scrutinized. A lot of Western culture has become so permeated into Japan that it's common to see: the Brothers Grimm are so popular with Japanese SF authors that I think some Western sticklers for originality would despair at how often those stories are referenced and adapted.
- anthk 4y agoMurakami it's a special case: It's a Japanese feeling itself like an "alien" because he writes novels about being a mix between Japan's tradition and lots of Western influences.
- bitwize 4y agoThe Japanese don't care much for Roland Emmerich's 1997 Godzilla. Because the rights to the character are owned by Toei, that character occasionally appears as a joke in Japanese Godzilla films as "Zilla" (because he is pathetic and not a god). The current Western Godzilla from 2024 on fared better with Japanese audiences, but they consider him too fat or something.
- ginko 4y agoI think they were referring to the heavy edits the original 1954 Godzilla film underwent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godzilla,_King_of_the_Monsters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godzilla,_King_of_the_Monsters!
- _23sd 4y agoYes, and also I was thinking more of how executives think about it rather than audiences. Sometimes the reason for popular Japanese films not making it to the West (or not making it until many years later) is because the Japanese rightsholders are holding out for funding to make an alternative cut for overseas audiences and get a wider theatrical release.
- BearOso 4y agoIt loses a lot of connotation, too. Philosopher's implies abstract, referring to the stone's elusive, impossible nature: having never been discovered, only theorized. In a story where everyone is a sorcerer, it dumbs that down a lot. It could be one of their kidney stones for all it matters.
- nerdponx 4y agoTo be fair, everybody in that world is a wizard, not a sorcerer.
- bee_rider 4y agoThese are fictional classification of fictional magic users anyway. Actually did she ever clarify what exactly a sorcerer is in her universe? (In the D&D model her wizards seem to operate more like sorcerers, but of course D&D doesn't make the rules for everyone).
- spoils19 4y agoThe American version is more accurate and arguably better - I like to think the title was changed for our heightened intelligence and not the opposite.
- beaconstudios 4y agoThe philosopher's stone was a specific historical idea, the catalyst that would allow alchemists to create the elixir of life.
- jfk13 4y agoOr transmute base metals into gold.
- underwater 4y agoThe myth of the Philosopher's Stone is not widely known outside the UK. Without correct context the title is dead boring and doesn't sound like it has anything to do with magic. Imagine picking up a book called "John Smith and the Architect's Compass" and having someone tell you the title makes sense because there is a legend about an ancient cult who guards a a device that can locate the holy grail.
- kyle-rb 4y ago> It worried me that they might have actually replaced Japanese music and actors with western "equivalents". There's a weird inverse to this in the manga/anime Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Many of the characters and their special abilities are named after well known American bands and songs (e.g. Steely Dan, Killer Queen, Crazy Diamond). But when localized, many have been censored due to potential rights issues. So Killer Queen becomes Deadly Queen, which is kind of sad since the references make me appreciate the cultural cross pollination you mentioned.
- sircastor 4y agoI remember learning about the title change, and the reason, and thinking “I know what a philosophers stone is…” because I’d come across it in my nerdy reading somewhere. I didn’t think American children would have had a problem with it. I’m kind of offended that publishers, television and movie producers, record executives, etc keep pulling this kind of garbage. We aren’t stupid, and I’m willing to bet that more often than not people are willing rise to the intelligence of a work rather than shy away from it.
- retrac 4y agoThey didn't just change the title from Philosopher's Stone. It was lightly edited throughout to nix Briticisms. You'd think they were translating it from the Ancient Greek edition and wanted to smooth over the culture gap. (A real translation, by the way!) All the more amusingly (or insultingly?) the Canadian release was the UK edition. Canadian English is much, much closer to American than British in its spoken form, so most of the worries about Briticisms would apply to Canadian children. Somehow we managed to read it, despite the strange and foreign speech and ideas.
- jollybean 4y agoCanadian English is closer to American English, but Canadians (at least up until recently) 'get' Britishisms, or at least, the tone if not all of the specific vocabulary, to a great extent. Edit: excluding Quebec where cultural references are completely different.
- t-3 4y agoAs an American that grew up reading Brian Jacques and Terry Pratchett, I don't think there's any difficulty in understanding Britishisms, even at a very young age. Even unbowdlerized Shakespeare isn't very difficult, it's mostly phonetically similar and the speech patterns are still present.
- jollybean 4y agoYour personal experience is likely not representative of 'America'. America is a vast, vast place with very large numbers of people who have no cultural connection to 'English' culture. I mean - because America is an English colony, everyone does to some extent, but it's much deeper in some places (and groups) than others. Even those with continental European background, the further S. and E. you go, the less the resonance. And of course people with European backgrounds ... that's only part of America. Huge swaths of kids speak a language other than English at home, there's going to be no direct resonance with an 'Alternative English' (i.e. beyond American) in those cases. Also, most children do not have any resonance with anything but their immediate culture - it takes a lot to get kinds beyond what's on TV, and/or what's in their immediate family environment. I have utterly no idea why my OP is being downvoted. Usually, going against the grain on something will get you downvoted, or saying something silly but I can't fathom either this case.
- zumu 4y agoMurakami's work is chock full of western media references. It's like his _thing_. At first I found it lazy and pretentious à la Sorkin, but with some distance I see it is generally pretty well done, so credit where credit is due I suppose. He also writes in a much more western style than most Japanese literary greats, so it works on that level as well. If you want more _Japanese_ Japanese literature, try Kawabata or Akutagawa. Though understanding the various cultural references is going to be a whole endeavor if you're not already familiar.
- drpixie 4y agoAgree. I remember very fondly an English translation of Gunter Grass' "Dog Years" for how German the novel felt. A great translation gives the reader the original's feel and impression. Too many editions/translations pander to the lowest factor and try to keep the even the dumbest reader comfortable!