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Assuming this was an American school this really surprising? America has school shootings regularly. Children have to perform regular active shooter drills in

Assuming this was an American school this really surprising? America has school shootings regularly. Children have to perform regular active shooter drills in American schools. Like a fire drill. There are also significant pressures put on a shrinking number of underpaid teachers and staff to care for an increasing number of children. More kids being cared for by fewer adults. With this mindset why would school staff not err on the side of caution and ask an unknown person to move along? It's a sad state of affairs, but it is not the fault of the teacher or school staff that America got here.

hn_version_0023 4y ago
It’s even less the fault of the kids, who bear the brunt of this monumental stupidity— particularly if their parents face consequences that separates them. Edit: spelling
mbrameld 4y ago
Those all sound like really good reasons that the teacher should NOT engage with anyone they think is up to no good.
- roguecoder 4y ago
  Teachers are taught & expected to sacrifice their lives to protect their students.
  - l33t2328 4y ago
    They are? How? They’re unarmed. Are they really expected to just die for the sake of making a show of protection?
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    No they’re not. Neither are police officers. Police have no duty to respond to emergency calls. Teachers are not held to a higher legal standard than police officers.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    That's funny. Not even cops are required to do that.
trashtester 4y ago
> With this mindset why would school staff not err on the side of caution and ask an unknown person to move along? Because instilling this type of paranoia in children is likely to cause more harm to the mental health of their generation (in total), than those very few bad events that this behavior stops? Also, it seems to me that this has been going on for a generation already, as more and more young adults are now hyper-fragile, calling for authoritarian responses to anything that scares them. The end result may very well be that those children will place a "strong leader" in power when they grow up, someone like Putin or Chavez.
- cecilpl2 4y ago
  > Because instilling this type of paranoia in children is likely to cause more harm to the mental health of their generation (in total), than those very few bad events that this behavior stops? Nobody gets a finger pointed at them for the slow institutionalization of instilling paranoia in children. But have it come out that you saw the stranger who shot up the school and didn't call security...? It's pure CYA.
throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>America has school shootings regularly Get out of your filter bubble. This isn't true anywhere.
- krnlpnc 4y ago
  There have been 14 so far in 2022 alone. And the year is not even half over yet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th...
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    - krnlpnc 4y ago
      > Per year per 11 million people Oh fun, I can do gymnastics with these numbers too. Let's go ahead and switch "people" for "mammals". Only 1 incident per year, per 18 billion mammals.
      - pessimizer 4y ago
        That would be dumb unless all mammals are potentially involved in school shootings. If you think statistics are easy to manipulate, I'm not sure that the smarter alternative is to ignore them entirely and operate through prejudice and fear.
      - tragictrash 4y ago
        There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics -Mark Twain
      - mensetmanusman 4y ago
        It’s not gymnastics, per capita statistics matter…
    - mihaaly 4y ago
int_19h 4y ago
I suggest you look up the actual statistics for school shootings. And I mean actual school shootings, not the kind of stuff that's defined as, "somebody fired a gun somewhere on school property at any time, and somebody died as a result" (which famously included a case of a guard suiciding with his duty handgun in a school parking lot at night). It really is a problem that is blown up out of all proportion to the actual threat. The threat is there, sure; but a kid in US is more likely to be killed in a car accident on their way to school, than by an armed spree killer in that school. Those active shooter drills, in particular, save some lives, but they traumatize several orders of magnitude more. The notion that you have to be wary of a stranger who isn't even on school grounds for this reason is absurd.
- krnlpnc 4y ago
  > And I mean actual school shootings, not the kind of stuff that's defined as, "somebody fired a gun somewhere on school property at any time, and somebody died as a result" sigh
- krnlpnc 4y ago
  Sandy hook happened again today.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    It'll keep happening so long as this country continues to ignore the well-being its own population. It also still remains true that it's a very minor threat compared to many others that we face in our day-to-day lives. I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything about it. I'm saying that we should always be aware of the true scope of the problem, and prioritize various measures accordingly. I suspect that the single biggest policy change that would drastically improve matters is universal healthcare, and particularly prophylactic treatment of mental health. It would also solve a lot of other problems. "Active shooter drills", on the other hand, create mental health problems without solving anything.

hn_version_0023 4y ago

It’s even less the fault of the kids, who bear the brunt of this monumental stupidity— particularly if their parents face consequences that separates them. Edit: spelling

mbrameld 4y ago

Those all sound like really good reasons that the teacher should NOT engage with anyone they think is up to no good.

roguecoder 4y ago
Teachers are taught & expected to sacrifice their lives to protect their students.
- l33t2328 4y ago
  They are? How? They’re unarmed. Are they really expected to just die for the sake of making a show of protection?
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  No they’re not. Neither are police officers. Police have no duty to respond to emergency calls. Teachers are not held to a higher legal standard than police officers.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  That's funny. Not even cops are required to do that.

trashtester 4y ago

> With this mindset why would school staff not err on the side of caution and ask an unknown person to move along? Because instilling this type of paranoia in children is likely to cause more harm to the mental health of their generation (in total), than those very few bad events that this behavior stops? Also, it seems to me that this has been going on for a generation already, as more and more young adults are now hyper-fragile, calling for authoritarian responses to anything that scares them. The end result may very well be that those children will place a "strong leader" in power when they grow up, someone like Putin or Chavez.

cecilpl2 4y ago
> Because instilling this type of paranoia in children is likely to cause more harm to the mental health of their generation (in total), than those very few bad events that this behavior stops? Nobody gets a finger pointed at them for the slow institutionalization of instilling paranoia in children. But have it come out that you saw the stranger who shot up the school and didn't call security...? It's pure CYA.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago

>America has school shootings regularly Get out of your filter bubble. This isn't true anywhere.

krnlpnc 4y ago
There have been 14 so far in 2022 alone. And the year is not even half over yet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th...
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  - krnlpnc 4y ago
    > Per year per 11 million people Oh fun, I can do gymnastics with these numbers too. Let's go ahead and switch "people" for "mammals". Only 1 incident per year, per 18 billion mammals.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      That would be dumb unless all mammals are potentially involved in school shootings. If you think statistics are easy to manipulate, I'm not sure that the smarter alternative is to ignore them entirely and operate through prejudice and fear.
    - tragictrash 4y ago
      There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics -Mark Twain
    - mensetmanusman 4y ago
      It’s not gymnastics, per capita statistics matter…
  - mihaaly 4y ago

int_19h 4y ago

I suggest you look up the actual statistics for school shootings. And I mean actual school shootings, not the kind of stuff that's defined as, "somebody fired a gun somewhere on school property at any time, and somebody died as a result" (which famously included a case of a guard suiciding with his duty handgun in a school parking lot at night). It really is a problem that is blown up out of all proportion to the actual threat. The threat is there, sure; but a kid in US is more likely to be killed in a car accident on their way to school, than by an armed spree killer in that school. Those active shooter drills, in particular, save some lives, but they traumatize several orders of magnitude more. The notion that you have to be wary of a stranger who isn't even on school grounds for this reason is absurd.

krnlpnc 4y ago
> And I mean actual school shootings, not the kind of stuff that's defined as, "somebody fired a gun somewhere on school property at any time, and somebody died as a result" sigh
krnlpnc 4y ago
Sandy hook happened again today.
- int_19h 4y ago
  It'll keep happening so long as this country continues to ignore the well-being its own population. It also still remains true that it's a very minor threat compared to many others that we face in our day-to-day lives. I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything about it. I'm saying that we should always be aware of the true scope of the problem, and prioritize various measures accordingly. I suspect that the single biggest policy change that would drastically improve matters is universal healthcare, and particularly prophylactic treatment of mental health. It would also solve a lot of other problems. "Active shooter drills", on the other hand, create mental health problems without solving anything.