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> In English and particularly American English, “the government” is understood to encompass the justice system as well as Congress/parliament That's only becau

> In English and particularly American English, “the government” is understood to encompass the justice system as well as Congress/parliament That's only because in USA the justice system depend on the elected president and elected representatives of the State. But that's not true in Europe. Law enforcement forces and justice system employees only have to obey to the laws, not to the politicians in power. They can't be fired at will.

Amezarak 4y ago
> That's only because in USA the justice system depend on the elected president and elected representatives of the State. That’s absolutely not true in the US. Almost all law enforcement has no connection to the President whatsoever. The FBI does have a connection, the director is appointed with legislative assent, but FBI employees cannot be fired at will by politician or even the director. Further, the FBI didn’t even exist for most of American history, so that’s not why the term evolved the way it did. Also, your country almost certainly operates similarly to US federal law enforcement. Or are you claiming there’s no democratic oversight of or input into the justice system at all? Further, if you don’t consider the justice system part of the government, what is it?
nix23 4y ago
>Law enforcement forces and justice system employees only have to obey to the laws, not to the politicians in power. Frontex want's to have a word with you..... And the Italian coastguard let people drown because it's law?....or maybe because it's a political thing? You cant separate the government and justice system completely.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > Frontex want's to have a word with you..... Let's hear your thesis here... > And your Italian coastguard let people drown because it's law?.... They actually don't. Some politician (a Trump and Putin supporter, BTW!) tried to make them drawn for political gains and was beaten by a German young Captain Woman. [1] many people in Europe protested against what Salvini was doing. [2] [3] [4] France officially condemned what was happening. Because you know, it's not a dictatorship here or a place where the police kills you if you're of the wrong color, the people still oppose to what Politicians and governments try to do. Please, don't try to teach me how my country works... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carola_Rackete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carola_Rackete [2] Paris: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/127BA/production/_107760757_b379939d-0fb5-4a38-99b9-a20d6c90b465.jpg https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/127BA/production... [3] Vienna https://taz.de/picture/3536744/624/23312167_Carola_Rackete_Seenotrettung_Sea_Watch.jpeg https://taz.de/picture/3536744/624/23312167_Carola_Rackete_S... [4] Germany https://media.tio.ch/files/domains/tio.ch/images/4bsj/huh5.jpg?rand=68838580 https://media.tio.ch/files/domains/tio.ch/images/4bsj/huh5.j...
  - nix23 4y ago
    >They actually don't. Since your talking about Rackete.... >>The EU is no longer rescuing drowning migrants and the number of refugees continues to fall. https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/carola-rackete-and-europe-s-troubling-refugee-policies-a-1276268.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/carola-rackete-a... You know that's why she got into troubles?...bringing drowning refugees to europa's coast. >many people in Europe protested against what Salvini was doing. So here you gave already proof that politicians can tell the coast guard what todo right?...because the sea-law is pretty clear..you have to help, no matter what. Thank you for the proof.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > The EU is no longer rescuing drowning migrants and the number of refugees continues to fall. In May 2022 already most than 10 thousand people reached the coasts of Italy via Mediterranean sea. [1] Between 2013 and 2016, over 600 thousand people have landed here. I think Italy is doing its share on that side. How many of those immigrants went to Hungary, for example? That's where EU is failing IMO, it should not be permitted to Orban to refuse redistribution of migrants. Not on CSAM regulations. If governments wnat to know what people are up to, they have to simply open social networks and wait for the people to write it publicly. No need to spy their conversations. The reactions here are completely paranoia fueled. [1] https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean On another note: if USA can please stop bombing African countries, maybe people shouldn't escape from the puppet regimes they install there... > So here you gave already proof that politicians can tell the coast guard what todo right They can try forcing the law. What Salvini did was and still is unlawful. His popularity dropped in a couple of years to a quarter of what it was. you can also convince people to march armed against Capital Hill, doesn't mean that that's a President's prerogative, it only means that crazy people are everywhere. At least we haven't built cages for immigrants' children. https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/11/written-testimony-kids-cages-inhumane-treatment-border https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/11/written-testimony-kids-c... > You know that's we she got into troubles...bringing drowning refugees to europa's coast. No, it was because Salvini was (temporarily thank God) Interior Minister of Italy. > Thank you for the proof. I proved it to you that if the system is resilient, no assault on democracy will last forever. You're welcome. Next time we'll talk about what constitute a rightful political action and what doesn't. In a dozen lessons you might learn how democracy works.

Amezarak 4y ago

> That's only because in USA the justice system depend on the elected president and elected representatives of the State. That’s absolutely not true in the US. Almost all law enforcement has no connection to the President whatsoever. The FBI does have a connection, the director is appointed with legislative assent, but FBI employees cannot be fired at will by politician or even the director. Further, the FBI didn’t even exist for most of American history, so that’s not why the term evolved the way it did. Also, your country almost certainly operates similarly to US federal law enforcement. Or are you claiming there’s no democratic oversight of or input into the justice system at all? Further, if you don’t consider the justice system part of the government, what is it?

nix23 4y ago

>Law enforcement forces and justice system employees only have to obey to the laws, not to the politicians in power. Frontex want's to have a word with you..... And the Italian coastguard let people drown because it's law?....or maybe because it's a political thing? You cant separate the government and justice system completely.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Frontex want's to have a word with you..... Let's hear your thesis here... > And your Italian coastguard let people drown because it's law?.... They actually don't. Some politician (a Trump and Putin supporter, BTW!) tried to make them drawn for political gains and was beaten by a German young Captain Woman. [1] many people in Europe protested against what Salvini was doing. [2] [3] [4] France officially condemned what was happening. Because you know, it's not a dictatorship here or a place where the police kills you if you're of the wrong color, the people still oppose to what Politicians and governments try to do. Please, don't try to teach me how my country works... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carola_Rackete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carola_Rackete [2] Paris: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/127BA/production/_107760757_b379939d-0fb5-4a38-99b9-a20d6c90b465.jpg https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/127BA/production... [3] Vienna https://taz.de/picture/3536744/624/23312167_Carola_Rackete_Seenotrettung_Sea_Watch.jpeg https://taz.de/picture/3536744/624/23312167_Carola_Rackete_S... [4] Germany https://media.tio.ch/files/domains/tio.ch/images/4bsj/huh5.jpg?rand=68838580 https://media.tio.ch/files/domains/tio.ch/images/4bsj/huh5.j...
- nix23 4y ago
  >They actually don't. Since your talking about Rackete.... >>The EU is no longer rescuing drowning migrants and the number of refugees continues to fall. https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/carola-rackete-and-europe-s-troubling-refugee-policies-a-1276268.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/carola-rackete-a... You know that's why she got into troubles?...bringing drowning refugees to europa's coast. >many people in Europe protested against what Salvini was doing. So here you gave already proof that politicians can tell the coast guard what todo right?...because the sea-law is pretty clear..you have to help, no matter what. Thank you for the proof.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > The EU is no longer rescuing drowning migrants and the number of refugees continues to fall. In May 2022 already most than 10 thousand people reached the coasts of Italy via Mediterranean sea. [1] Between 2013 and 2016, over 600 thousand people have landed here. I think Italy is doing its share on that side. How many of those immigrants went to Hungary, for example? That's where EU is failing IMO, it should not be permitted to Orban to refuse redistribution of migrants. Not on CSAM regulations. If governments wnat to know what people are up to, they have to simply open social networks and wait for the people to write it publicly. No need to spy their conversations. The reactions here are completely paranoia fueled. [1] https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean On another note: if USA can please stop bombing African countries, maybe people shouldn't escape from the puppet regimes they install there... > So here you gave already proof that politicians can tell the coast guard what todo right They can try forcing the law. What Salvini did was and still is unlawful. His popularity dropped in a couple of years to a quarter of what it was. you can also convince people to march armed against Capital Hill, doesn't mean that that's a President's prerogative, it only means that crazy people are everywhere. At least we haven't built cages for immigrants' children. https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/11/written-testimony-kids-cages-inhumane-treatment-border https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/11/written-testimony-kids-c... > You know that's we she got into troubles...bringing drowning refugees to europa's coast. No, it was because Salvini was (temporarily thank God) Interior Minister of Italy. > Thank you for the proof. I proved it to you that if the system is resilient, no assault on democracy will last forever. You're welcome. Next time we'll talk about what constitute a rightful political action and what doesn't. In a dozen lessons you might learn how democracy works.