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You should drop #3, Poland and Lithuania are former Soviet states and late joiners of NATO '99 and '04 respectively so NATO effectively "annexed" former Soviet

You should drop #3, Poland and Lithuania are former Soviet states and late joiners of NATO '99 and '04 respectively so NATO effectively "annexed" former Soviet territory around part of Russia. Arguing that this somehow means that NATO is more tolerant of having Russian forces "within its borders" is absurd since they were the ones that expanded those borders around Kaliningrad.

denton-scratch 4y ago
> so NATO effectively "annexed" former Soviet territory around part of Russia. 1. NATO isn't a country, and can't annexe anything. 2. Former Soviet states are states that are no longer Soviet. NATO didn't ccoerce Poland and Lithuania into joining. Your notion of what annexation means is at odds with mine.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes 2. I said nothing about coercion. Care to speak to the point I made, which I'll repeat for clarity: > Arguing that this somehow means that NATO is more tolerant of having Russian forces "within its borders" is absurd or would you prefer to find issue with other irrelevant or imagined details?
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    Please explain "annexed"; your wikipedia link makes it clear that different people intepret scare-quotes in different ways. If you are talking about annexation not involving coercion, then we aren't reading from the same dictionary page.
    - throwaway4aday 4y ago
      In the sense that the current government in Russia still perceives its former satellites as part of it or its sphere of influence. The US and Russia are the main players here so I'm not considering the opinions of the people living in those states sorry but that's just realpolitik and its the way both sides think. Russia lost its empire during the collapse of the Soviet Union and the United States has been expanding its empire at their expense. Before you say anything about it not being an empire, I'll just say if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.

denton-scratch 4y ago

> so NATO effectively "annexed" former Soviet territory around part of Russia. 1. NATO isn't a country, and can't annexe anything. 2. Former Soviet states are states that are no longer Soviet. NATO didn't ccoerce Poland and Lithuania into joining. Your notion of what annexation means is at odds with mine.

throwaway4aday 4y ago
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes 2. I said nothing about coercion. Care to speak to the point I made, which I'll repeat for clarity: > Arguing that this somehow means that NATO is more tolerant of having Russian forces "within its borders" is absurd or would you prefer to find issue with other irrelevant or imagined details?
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  Please explain "annexed"; your wikipedia link makes it clear that different people intepret scare-quotes in different ways. If you are talking about annexation not involving coercion, then we aren't reading from the same dictionary page.
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    In the sense that the current government in Russia still perceives its former satellites as part of it or its sphere of influence. The US and Russia are the main players here so I'm not considering the opinions of the people living in those states sorry but that's just realpolitik and its the way both sides think. Russia lost its empire during the collapse of the Soviet Union and the United States has been expanding its empire at their expense. Before you say anything about it not being an empire, I'll just say if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.