3 ms·

> nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people I mean this is just blatantly false. History has shown us this is false. Even if you think the current

by pc86 5y ago

> nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people I mean this is just blatantly false. History has shown us this is false. Even if you think the current government is fully comprised of kind-hearted, magnanimous, good people, what makes you think that will be the case for the next 10, 50, 100 years? A story - I have a google alert set up for my name. Someone in a different state with the same name was recently arrested. I've gotten 5-6 alerts every day for the last week from various local (to him) newspaper and television station websites announcing his arrest. Name, address, age, alleged offenses, etc. How many will I get if he's found innocent two years from now? My guess is, at most, 1 or 2. Why would we want AI, even with human verification (which is just them checking the hashes match, anyway, so not real "verification"), to trigger the cascade of events that would occur from someone getting arrested for CSAM based on this technology? It would ruin someone's life. Now if I'm being honest, if someone actually has CSAM, I couldn't care less if they end up homeless and their life is actually ruined. But taking a step back, and acknowledging that someone innocent will get caught by this, as it's just a matter of time at that point, it's not worth it. If we had a society where you could just say in a job interview "oh yeah that was a false positive, I can prove it" and that's that, then there's a bit more of an argument to be made. But that's not our society. Once your name pops up with this kind of thing, that's who you are for the rest of your life, guilty or not.

stef25 5y ago
For starters, you seem to giving anecdotes from the US. Privacy laws in the EU differ from country to country but in some places at least, names & faces of people arrested suspects aren't published. And afaik these gross miscarriages of justice that seem to be ubiquitous in the US are nowhere near as common the EU. > But taking a step back, and acknowledging that someone innocent will get caught by this, as it's just a matter of time at that point, it's not worth it Couldn't you extrapolate that to law enforcement in general? It's not clear to me if you're saying that AI specifically will falsely flag people and / or if you're worried about being identified as someone else with the same name getting arrested for something. Either way both scenarios exist without any AI being involved. Personally I was falsely flagged because someone driving a car with a number plate that belonged to me was caught over a dozen times driving ridiculous speeds and it took me the better part of a year to convince the justice system it wasn't me. All because they didn't know how to update some database records with the other guy's name and despite the fact that no human ever claimed I was driving that car (the other guy said it was him not me, the car leasing company said it wasn't me, plenty of paperwork was provided). Massive pain in the ass (and nowhere near as serious as CSAM) and it required lawyers and court appearances but I'm not advocating to abolish speed checks.
- eru 5y ago
  > And afaik these gross miscarriages of justice that seem to be ubiquitous in the US are nowhere near as common the EU. Not sure. There's a lot of selection bias here: all of the US speaks English, which you can presumably understand. Local scandals in some obscure EU country might only be reported in languages you don't understand.
gambiting 5y ago
>>omeone in a different state with the same name was recently arrested. I've gotten 5-6 alerts every day for the last week from various local (to him) newspaper and television station websites announcing his arrest. Name, address, age, alleged offenses, etc. How many will I get if he's found innocent two years from now? That sounds like a problem that's very unique to the weird justice system in US(and UK to an extent, unfortunately), where the law allows publishing the name and other details of an arrested person. In most(if not all?) EU countries that is strictly forbidden - until the trial is done, any arestee can only be reported on by their first name and with the face hidden. Avoids runining innocent lives like American media do.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by pc86 5y ago

stef25 5y ago

For starters, you seem to giving anecdotes from the US. Privacy laws in the EU differ from country to country but in some places at least, names & faces of people arrested suspects aren't published. And afaik these gross miscarriages of justice that seem to be ubiquitous in the US are nowhere near as common the EU. > But taking a step back, and acknowledging that someone innocent will get caught by this, as it's just a matter of time at that point, it's not worth it Couldn't you extrapolate that to law enforcement in general? It's not clear to me if you're saying that AI specifically will falsely flag people and / or if you're worried about being identified as someone else with the same name getting arrested for something. Either way both scenarios exist without any AI being involved. Personally I was falsely flagged because someone driving a car with a number plate that belonged to me was caught over a dozen times driving ridiculous speeds and it took me the better part of a year to convince the justice system it wasn't me. All because they didn't know how to update some database records with the other guy's name and despite the fact that no human ever claimed I was driving that car (the other guy said it was him not me, the car leasing company said it wasn't me, plenty of paperwork was provided). Massive pain in the ass (and nowhere near as serious as CSAM) and it required lawyers and court appearances but I'm not advocating to abolish speed checks.

eru 5y ago
> And afaik these gross miscarriages of justice that seem to be ubiquitous in the US are nowhere near as common the EU. Not sure. There's a lot of selection bias here: all of the US speaks English, which you can presumably understand. Local scandals in some obscure EU country might only be reported in languages you don't understand.

gambiting 5y ago

>>omeone in a different state with the same name was recently arrested. I've gotten 5-6 alerts every day for the last week from various local (to him) newspaper and television station websites announcing his arrest. Name, address, age, alleged offenses, etc. How many will I get if he's found innocent two years from now? That sounds like a problem that's very unique to the weird justice system in US(and UK to an extent, unfortunately), where the law allows publishing the name and other details of an arrested person. In most(if not all?) EU countries that is strictly forbidden - until the trial is done, any arestee can only be reported on by their first name and with the face hidden. Avoids runining innocent lives like American media do.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]