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Quoting Adam Curtis from The Power of Nighmares: > In the past, politicians promised to create a better world. They had different ways of achieving this, but t

by crmd 4y ago

Quoting Adam Curtis from The Power of Nighmares: > In the past, politicians promised to create a better world. They had different ways of achieving this, but their power and authority came from the optimistic visions they offered their people. Those dreams failed and today people have lost faith in ideologies. Increasingly, politicians are seen simply as managers of public life, but now they have discovered a new role that restores their power and authority. Instead of delivering dreams, politicians now promise to protect us: from nightmares. They say that they will rescue us from dreadful dangers that we cannot see and do not understand. They had a great 20 year run on the terrorism narrative, but they need a new nightmare, and they’ve apparently settled on child predators.

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
Absolutely brilliant series, and highly recommended. Available on the Internet Archive. https://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-AdamCurtis https://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-AdamCurtis
- eru 4y ago
  I have watched 'All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace' by the same guy. If that stuff is anything to go by, Adam Curtis long on insinuation and clever cuts, and short on actual insight. Beware of Gell-Mann Amnesia. Btw, I suspect politicians always used the protection-from-nightmares just as much as promising utopia.
  - mhh__ 4y ago
    I agree. Curtis complains about narrative building and hypernormalisation, when he is arguably doing both of those things every time he speaks. The tune of the poem is more important than the words to him.
    - chillingeffect 4y ago
      Urm clarify plz how one documentarian can hypernormalize? It's a collaborative work by many parties w overlapping interests. Over time. Using vast resources.
      - mhh__ 4y ago
        Because he likes making up cute narratives with usually 0 citations, it's all about the tune, not the words. Lots of people listen to him, he isn't just some guy.
        chillingeffect 4y ago
        >Lots Same could be said for David Attenborough or Errol Morris, but that's not enough influence to be called "hypernormalization." Shining a light on how power functions is a gnatbite to, say, lawmakers banning abortion and homelessness, enforcing building codes, drafting a generation of males to war, engaging in armed combat against miners, etc. Even a documentarian with a mirrored ideology, say, Steve Bannon couldn't be said to be hypernormalizing- only communicating. > citations I re-watched some of "Century of Self" [0] to evaluate this statement. Much of it is primary sources: interviews. [0] https://youtu.be/DnPmg0R1M04 https://youtu.be/DnPmg0R1M04
        mhh__ 4y ago
        David Attenborough does not make the same style of programming that Curtis does. Curtis has a very specific world view, or world vibe, let's say whereas Attenborough does have views about the world but not much else beyond visual grandeur. His earlier stuff is definitely better than his more recent work, but I refer specifically to the hypernormalization documentary because it's absolutely full of "Syria this", "Assad this", "[large country or company] decided to do [remarkably simple thing]". Maybe it's right, but the point is that it's structured and edited in a way where he wants to make you feel his argument that the world is being forced into a state of inaction, not convince you that his argument is correct. In this specific documentary, he is undeniably flying extremely close to the sun in how he presents his argument versus what he is arguing against. He argument is all about the "theys" and the men in palaces, and obviously some decisions are, but some inference one makes in this mindset are simply the result of being fooled by randomness. Don't get me wrong, I like listening to Adam Curtis docs while I'm working, I just think that he goes too far. When he is covering identifiable flaws he is absolutely brilliant, e.g. his piece on Nick Leeson is really nicely done, when he is kind of mumbling about some kind of incompetent conspiracy to do [something] he is often charismatic but shallow. Also (a point about documentary filmmaking in general) the use of interviews is actually something I sort of disagree to an extent with unless it's a documentary like the fog of war where it's about a person in particular. It is extremely easy to manipulate interview. This (https://youtu.be/BBwepkVurCI?t=90 https://youtu.be/BBwepkVurCI?t=90) is an extreme example demonstrated by Charlie Brooker, but you can be really subtle. And what if they're lying? What if you end up lying by accident? Trust but verify. https://youtu.be/itqMwuB8gOk https://youtu.be/itqMwuB8gOk This is an interesting documentary about secret maps and information in Britain. I find it interesting, use my above writing as a barometer for whether that entices you or not.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  I review "Century of the Self" every few years .. also by Adam Curtis iir
kmlx 4y ago
> They had a great 20 year run on the terrorism narrative, but they need a new nightmare, and they’ve apparently settled on child predators. just a second, we've got the new Russia - Ukraine nightmare.
- MerelyMortal 4y ago
  Wars come and go, if a politician wants an enemy that will always be there, the threat of child abuse is it.
- an9n 4y ago
  'next pandemic'...
- adamsmith143 4y ago
  >just a second, we've got the new Russia - Ukraine nightmare. Find a Ukrainian living through the war and ask them if it's a manufactured nightmare or a real one...
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    > Find (Just to be sure, here is a reminder that some HN members are in that. No need to find - it's part of this public. The author of Leaflet is the first that comes to (my) mind, and many others then.)
therein 4y ago
I didn't put much emphasis on the first line of your comment and skipped to the paragraph right away, yet still read that paragraph with Adam Curtis' voice in my head. Granted I watched all his documentaries...

by crmd 4y ago

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago

Absolutely brilliant series, and highly recommended. Available on the Internet Archive. https://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-AdamCurtis https://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-AdamCurtis

eru 4y ago
I have watched 'All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace' by the same guy. If that stuff is anything to go by, Adam Curtis long on insinuation and clever cuts, and short on actual insight. Beware of Gell-Mann Amnesia. Btw, I suspect politicians always used the protection-from-nightmares just as much as promising utopia.
- mhh__ 4y ago
  I agree. Curtis complains about narrative building and hypernormalisation, when he is arguably doing both of those things every time he speaks. The tune of the poem is more important than the words to him.
  - chillingeffect 4y ago
    Urm clarify plz how one documentarian can hypernormalize? It's a collaborative work by many parties w overlapping interests. Over time. Using vast resources.
    - mhh__ 4y ago
      Because he likes making up cute narratives with usually 0 citations, it's all about the tune, not the words. Lots of people listen to him, he isn't just some guy.
      - chillingeffect 4y ago
        >Lots Same could be said for David Attenborough or Errol Morris, but that's not enough influence to be called "hypernormalization." Shining a light on how power functions is a gnatbite to, say, lawmakers banning abortion and homelessness, enforcing building codes, drafting a generation of males to war, engaging in armed combat against miners, etc. Even a documentarian with a mirrored ideology, say, Steve Bannon couldn't be said to be hypernormalizing- only communicating. > citations I re-watched some of "Century of Self" [0] to evaluate this statement. Much of it is primary sources: interviews. [0] https://youtu.be/DnPmg0R1M04 https://youtu.be/DnPmg0R1M04
        mhh__ 4y ago
        David Attenborough does not make the same style of programming that Curtis does. Curtis has a very specific world view, or world vibe, let's say whereas Attenborough does have views about the world but not much else beyond visual grandeur. His earlier stuff is definitely better than his more recent work, but I refer specifically to the hypernormalization documentary because it's absolutely full of "Syria this", "Assad this", "[large country or company] decided to do [remarkably simple thing]". Maybe it's right, but the point is that it's structured and edited in a way where he wants to make you feel his argument that the world is being forced into a state of inaction, not convince you that his argument is correct. In this specific documentary, he is undeniably flying extremely close to the sun in how he presents his argument versus what he is arguing against. He argument is all about the "theys" and the men in palaces, and obviously some decisions are, but some inference one makes in this mindset are simply the result of being fooled by randomness. Don't get me wrong, I like listening to Adam Curtis docs while I'm working, I just think that he goes too far. When he is covering identifiable flaws he is absolutely brilliant, e.g. his piece on Nick Leeson is really nicely done, when he is kind of mumbling about some kind of incompetent conspiracy to do [something] he is often charismatic but shallow. Also (a point about documentary filmmaking in general) the use of interviews is actually something I sort of disagree to an extent with unless it's a documentary like the fog of war where it's about a person in particular. It is extremely easy to manipulate interview. This (https://youtu.be/BBwepkVurCI?t=90 https://youtu.be/BBwepkVurCI?t=90) is an extreme example demonstrated by Charlie Brooker, but you can be really subtle. And what if they're lying? What if you end up lying by accident? Trust but verify. https://youtu.be/itqMwuB8gOk https://youtu.be/itqMwuB8gOk This is an interesting documentary about secret maps and information in Britain. I find it interesting, use my above writing as a barometer for whether that entices you or not.
mistrial9 4y ago
I review "Century of the Self" every few years .. also by Adam Curtis iir

kmlx 4y ago

> They had a great 20 year run on the terrorism narrative, but they need a new nightmare, and they’ve apparently settled on child predators. just a second, we've got the new Russia - Ukraine nightmare.

MerelyMortal 4y ago
Wars come and go, if a politician wants an enemy that will always be there, the threat of child abuse is it.
an9n 4y ago
'next pandemic'...
adamsmith143 4y ago
>just a second, we've got the new Russia - Ukraine nightmare. Find a Ukrainian living through the war and ask them if it's a manufactured nightmare or a real one...
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > Find (Just to be sure, here is a reminder that some HN members are in that. No need to find - it's part of this public. The author of Leaflet is the first that comes to (my) mind, and many others then.)

therein 4y ago

I didn't put much emphasis on the first line of your comment and skipped to the paragraph right away, yet still read that paragraph with Adam Curtis' voice in my head. Granted I watched all his documentaries...