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> The automated filter won't care about the context though That's why we have a justice system. Specifically not a common law based one, which is kinds scary

> The automated filter won't care about the context though That's why we have a justice system. Specifically not a common law based one, which is kinds scary per se. People are innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof's on the prosecution. We are talking about EU here, not Sudan.

pc86 4y ago
1. What makes you think Sudan (or NK, or Russia, or China) won't get their hands on this technology? 2. What makes you think every government in the entire EU will always have the people's best interests at heart? 3. What makes you think #2 is true even today? It seems like this technology could be very easy to abuse, to great public detriment. Is the juice worth the squeeze?
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > 1. What makes you think Sudan (or NK, or Russia, or China) won't get their hands on this technology? their problem! they have more pressing issues already! and some of them have already implemented worse ways of surveilling their citizens. In this regards, even USA is far worse than EU! > 2. What makes you think every government in the entire EU will always have the people's best interests at heart? I don't, that's why we constantly check on them and change them if we don't like them > 3. What makes you think #2 is true even today? Because I live in EU and everywhere else I look the situation is far worse. > It seems like this technology could be very easy to abuse, to great public detriment. Is the juice worth the squeeze? Like any technology! Funny that guns are abused daily in US but the biggest preoccupation of HN is potential abuse of CSAM filters in EU... Which would also be illegal! If the filter has to be used for CSAM content, it can't be used for anything else.
  - pc86 4y ago
    > > 3. What makes you think #2 is true even today? > Because I live in EU and everywhere else I look the situation is far worse. "It's worse other places" doesn't answer the question. The EU's government isn't perfect and I don't see any safeguards in this proposal. It's ripe for abuse. > Funny that guns are abused daily in US Whataboutism nonsense, nobody is talking about guns except you. > If the filter has to be used for CSAM content, it can't be used for anything else. Utterly fanciful. Once this exists and is in place, it can and will be expanded to other things. Eventually a government you don't like will be elected in your country, and they'll be able to expand this. This tool in the hands of an authoritarian government is as dangerous as any firearm because it would allow them to track dissent.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > The EU's government isn't perfect Do you know someone or something that is? I don't. > I don't see any safeguards in this proposal. then write one and propose it! or look better. >It's ripe for abuse. BY WHOM EXACTLY? AND WHY? > Utterly fanciful. Once this exists and is in place, it can and will be expanded to other things. Are you from the future or simply doubling down on your opinions, trying to pose them as unequivocal facts? > This tool in the hands of an authoritarian government There's no such thing in Europe, the closets thing to it it's Viktor Orban in Hungary. Who is still more democratic than Trump.
      - tut-urut-utut 4y ago
        You mean like German police using the data from COVID tracing apps, although legally they should not be used for anything except virus tracing? Or it doesn't count since Germany is not a democracy?
        peoplefromibiza 4y ago
        > Or it doesn't count since Germany is not a democracy? you say that as a joke, but it's not completely false. Half of Germany was still a dystopian 1984esque state 30 years ago. Those people are still alive, those kids are adults now. It doesn't surprise me at all that it can happen. Anyway, it was one case in a small city where they tracked a witness of a crime, they didn't "destroy the privacy of all European citizenzs to create a surveillance state in EU" Besides, WhatsApp and IG have the same (if not much more) metadata, given by the users while simply using the app, that are already being abused in any possible way. including selling them. At least a tracing app is explicitly for tracing. I never used a tracing app for COVID, problem solved. But people (even my mom!) use WhatsApp, I can't escape that and can't escape Facebook knowing who I cal. when, for how long, even if the messages are encrypted, metadata is not. I would very much prefer a call from the police to help them solve a crime than FB sending me unsolicited ads or worse.
kmlx 4y ago
> Specifically not a common law based one, which is kinds scary per se. "scary"?
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  being able to interpret law freely but at the same time being bound by precedent, is scary. Law should be as unequivocal as possible. Common law is the equivalent of the imperial units or driving on the left of the road. They have been replaced by better units or superseded by more uniformly accepted standards.
dodobirdlord 4y ago
Being arrested and dragged into court to defend yourself will seriously negatively impact your life all on its own.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  You can't be arrested over alleged crimes here. The police can't drag you in jail and then in court, we are civilized people,they send a letter to you notifying you that they are investigating you and you have a right to the defense. That's all.

pc86 4y ago

1. What makes you think Sudan (or NK, or Russia, or China) won't get their hands on this technology? 2. What makes you think every government in the entire EU will always have the people's best interests at heart? 3. What makes you think #2 is true even today? It seems like this technology could be very easy to abuse, to great public detriment. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> 1. What makes you think Sudan (or NK, or Russia, or China) won't get their hands on this technology? their problem! they have more pressing issues already! and some of them have already implemented worse ways of surveilling their citizens. In this regards, even USA is far worse than EU! > 2. What makes you think every government in the entire EU will always have the people's best interests at heart? I don't, that's why we constantly check on them and change them if we don't like them > 3. What makes you think #2 is true even today? Because I live in EU and everywhere else I look the situation is far worse. > It seems like this technology could be very easy to abuse, to great public detriment. Is the juice worth the squeeze? Like any technology! Funny that guns are abused daily in US but the biggest preoccupation of HN is potential abuse of CSAM filters in EU... Which would also be illegal! If the filter has to be used for CSAM content, it can't be used for anything else.
- pc86 4y ago
  > > 3. What makes you think #2 is true even today? > Because I live in EU and everywhere else I look the situation is far worse. "It's worse other places" doesn't answer the question. The EU's government isn't perfect and I don't see any safeguards in this proposal. It's ripe for abuse. > Funny that guns are abused daily in US Whataboutism nonsense, nobody is talking about guns except you. > If the filter has to be used for CSAM content, it can't be used for anything else. Utterly fanciful. Once this exists and is in place, it can and will be expanded to other things. Eventually a government you don't like will be elected in your country, and they'll be able to expand this. This tool in the hands of an authoritarian government is as dangerous as any firearm because it would allow them to track dissent.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > The EU's government isn't perfect Do you know someone or something that is? I don't. > I don't see any safeguards in this proposal. then write one and propose it! or look better. >It's ripe for abuse. BY WHOM EXACTLY? AND WHY? > Utterly fanciful. Once this exists and is in place, it can and will be expanded to other things. Are you from the future or simply doubling down on your opinions, trying to pose them as unequivocal facts? > This tool in the hands of an authoritarian government There's no such thing in Europe, the closets thing to it it's Viktor Orban in Hungary. Who is still more democratic than Trump.
    - tut-urut-utut 4y ago
      You mean like German police using the data from COVID tracing apps, although legally they should not be used for anything except virus tracing? Or it doesn't count since Germany is not a democracy?
      - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
        > Or it doesn't count since Germany is not a democracy? you say that as a joke, but it's not completely false. Half of Germany was still a dystopian 1984esque state 30 years ago. Those people are still alive, those kids are adults now. It doesn't surprise me at all that it can happen. Anyway, it was one case in a small city where they tracked a witness of a crime, they didn't "destroy the privacy of all European citizenzs to create a surveillance state in EU" Besides, WhatsApp and IG have the same (if not much more) metadata, given by the users while simply using the app, that are already being abused in any possible way. including selling them. At least a tracing app is explicitly for tracing. I never used a tracing app for COVID, problem solved. But people (even my mom!) use WhatsApp, I can't escape that and can't escape Facebook knowing who I cal. when, for how long, even if the messages are encrypted, metadata is not. I would very much prefer a call from the police to help them solve a crime than FB sending me unsolicited ads or worse.

kmlx 4y ago

> Specifically not a common law based one, which is kinds scary per se. "scary"?

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
being able to interpret law freely but at the same time being bound by precedent, is scary. Law should be as unequivocal as possible. Common law is the equivalent of the imperial units or driving on the left of the road. They have been replaced by better units or superseded by more uniformly accepted standards.

dodobirdlord 4y ago

Being arrested and dragged into court to defend yourself will seriously negatively impact your life all on its own.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
You can't be arrested over alleged crimes here. The police can't drag you in jail and then in court, we are civilized people,they send a letter to you notifying you that they are investigating you and you have a right to the defense. That's all.