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It probably helps that we were complaining about and even making fun of[0] our government for using child pornography as an excuse for pushing through draconian

It probably helps that we were complaining about and even making fun of[0] our government for using child pornography as an excuse for pushing through draconian populist laws a decade ago already. We may just happen to have a little head-start here basically. Edit: for the non-Dutch, the link goes to an article by the Dutch equivalent of The Onion and the headline says "Opstelten [our minister of Security and Justice at the time] says new regulations are needed or else child pornography". [0] https://speld.nl/2012/10/24/opstelten-%E2%80%98nieuwe-maatregelen-nodig-want-anders-kinderporno%E2%80%99/ https://speld.nl/2012/10/24/opstelten-%E2%80%98nieuwe-maatre...

tluyben2 4y ago
You need awareness that things most people don’t understand fully are absurd. Humour can be a tool for that.
pc86 4y ago
The Netherlands seems great as an outsider. I've been to Amsterdam, which was too touristy for me, but still beautiful. And we took a train to Utrecht and the surrounding areas which was great. Even struck up a conversation with a group of (local) software developers on the train. Even with the lockdown protest issues it seems like it should be on the shortlist if you want to move to the EU as an American.
- eru 4y ago
  Keep in mind that comp for Dutch software developers is probably an order of magnitude lower than what you can get in the US.
  - rrdharan 4y ago
    That and it’s a fairly racist place in my experience so don’t bother if you think that would affect you.
    - gattilorenz 4y ago
      > it's fairly racist place in my experience Out of curiosity, did you live in other countries as well? I have the impression that in NL there certainly is a certain level of racism, but it's less systemic/endemic/widespread than in other countries (including parts of the US). It's an opinion based on very limited data and personal observation, so take it with a grain of salt.
    - oauea 4y ago
      Not nearly as racist as the US where people of color are regularly murdered.
      - oauea 4y ago
        Just ask yourself, when was the last time something like this happened in the Netherlands? https://www.wivb.com/news/buffalo-supermarket-mass-shooting-tops/buffalo-mass-shooters-alleged-manifesto-leaves-no-doubt-attack-was-white-supremacist-terrorism/ https://www.wivb.com/news/buffalo-supermarket-mass-shooting-...
    - kingcharles 4y ago
      I think your racism meter is mis-calibrated. Sure, the Dutch are a bit funny about all the Turks in the country, but I find their racism against the Turks to be way lower than say a lot of Americans' racism against Hispanics.
      - vanderZwan 4y ago
        I don't think we should tell someone who implies they have experienced racism first-hand that they haven't experienced racism. Especially if the counter-argument is "other ethnicity I belong to doesn't seem to be treated that badly compared to racism against yet another ethnicity I don't belong to in a different country."
        kingcharles 4y ago
        You're right, but the poster above seemed to be talking for a whole population, which I then did too by talking about Americans as a counter-example. It's just that my experience of the Netherlands isn't that they are particularly racist, but if you haven't experienced other cultures then it is easy to lose calibration. Like how a lot of Americans tend to think of the country as number one in a lot of things (e.g. education), but when you visit other countries or explore other cultures you find out your views are miscalibrated.
- wsc981 4y ago
  The Netherlands government has quite deep ties with the WEF, so expect The Netherlands to be at the forefront of pushing the WEF agenda. You can decide for yourself if that’s a good thing, but I’ve made my choice and am happy not living there anymore. But I should add I left a couple of years before I even heard of the WEF. Me leaving The Netherlands was for other reasons.

tluyben2 4y ago

You need awareness that things most people don’t understand fully are absurd. Humour can be a tool for that.

pc86 4y ago

The Netherlands seems great as an outsider. I've been to Amsterdam, which was too touristy for me, but still beautiful. And we took a train to Utrecht and the surrounding areas which was great. Even struck up a conversation with a group of (local) software developers on the train. Even with the lockdown protest issues it seems like it should be on the shortlist if you want to move to the EU as an American.

eru 4y ago
Keep in mind that comp for Dutch software developers is probably an order of magnitude lower than what you can get in the US.
- rrdharan 4y ago
  That and it’s a fairly racist place in my experience so don’t bother if you think that would affect you.
  - gattilorenz 4y ago
    > it's fairly racist place in my experience Out of curiosity, did you live in other countries as well? I have the impression that in NL there certainly is a certain level of racism, but it's less systemic/endemic/widespread than in other countries (including parts of the US). It's an opinion based on very limited data and personal observation, so take it with a grain of salt.
  - oauea 4y ago
    Not nearly as racist as the US where people of color are regularly murdered.
    - oauea 4y ago
      Just ask yourself, when was the last time something like this happened in the Netherlands? https://www.wivb.com/news/buffalo-supermarket-mass-shooting-tops/buffalo-mass-shooters-alleged-manifesto-leaves-no-doubt-attack-was-white-supremacist-terrorism/ https://www.wivb.com/news/buffalo-supermarket-mass-shooting-...
  - kingcharles 4y ago
    I think your racism meter is mis-calibrated. Sure, the Dutch are a bit funny about all the Turks in the country, but I find their racism against the Turks to be way lower than say a lot of Americans' racism against Hispanics.
    - vanderZwan 4y ago
      I don't think we should tell someone who implies they have experienced racism first-hand that they haven't experienced racism. Especially if the counter-argument is "other ethnicity I belong to doesn't seem to be treated that badly compared to racism against yet another ethnicity I don't belong to in a different country."
      - kingcharles 4y ago
        You're right, but the poster above seemed to be talking for a whole population, which I then did too by talking about Americans as a counter-example. It's just that my experience of the Netherlands isn't that they are particularly racist, but if you haven't experienced other cultures then it is easy to lose calibration. Like how a lot of Americans tend to think of the country as number one in a lot of things (e.g. education), but when you visit other countries or explore other cultures you find out your views are miscalibrated.
wsc981 4y ago
The Netherlands government has quite deep ties with the WEF, so expect The Netherlands to be at the forefront of pushing the WEF agenda. You can decide for yourself if that’s a good thing, but I’ve made my choice and am happy not living there anymore. But I should add I left a couple of years before I even heard of the WEF. Me leaving The Netherlands was for other reasons.