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If people cant handle the basic of investing they shouldnt do it. If its too good to be true it mostly isnt. Is it the casino foult that their customers loose

If people cant handle the basic of investing they shouldnt do it. If its too good to be true it mostly isnt. Is it the casino foult that their customers loose money because the ambient is so inviting and screams wining?

dagw 4y ago
Is it the casino foult that their customers loose money Casinos are very strictly regulated and must post the exact rules and probability of winning for all their games. If the casino lies about the rules of the game or your chances of winning, then yes it is absolutely their fault and they will be held liable.
- bratwurst3000 4y ago
  Yes and everyone warned everyone investing in crypto that it could go from hero to zero instantly. I cant believe anyone didnt know this risk.
  - SamBam 4y ago
    I failed to see any of these warnings you're talking about in any of the Superbowl ads. I'm pretty sure if I followed the Superbowl ads to crypto.com, I would fail to see these warnings. Yes, for everyone deeply connected online, who has been following crypto for the last several years, of course we've talked about plenty of warnings many times. But the current marketing campaigns are not aimed at such people.
    - bratwurst3000 4y ago
      It is bad and sad that many people lost money that didn’t want to sound like I’m not aware of that. And yes you could be right it’s just my bubble. But it’s still sad that so many people fall for get rich quick scheme.
  - mescaline 4y ago
    There's a slight problem in your use of "everyone". You, personally, don't know or have sampled everyone. You are using it as a indication that "people warned" and "people should know", given people warned other people. Saying you can't believe people didn't know is just showing lack of empathy in how others form trust. Many of those people form trust by looking at a screen and seeing a nice website with nice logins and nice charts. They look at things with dollar signs and say, "that's a good number there". Others dig in and are curious about how things work. Some laugh when people complain about how much power proof-of-work takes and believe it is the eniventible conclusion to why we don't see aliens out there. Don't be the wurst person. Be the best! See that all humans need our help from an understanding technology perspective. Know that software can be implemented to take away their choices, or give them more choices than they had before.
  - JackFr 4y ago
    Everyone involved in crypto is either a con or a mark. There isn't a middle ground.
  - afavour 4y ago
    There was no such warning in all the high profile ads that drew people in.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Yes and everyone warned everyone investing in crypto that it could go from hero to zero instantly. I cant believe anyone didnt know this risk. Clearly not. There's a pretty clear pattern where many (most?) cryptocurrency enthusiasts avert their eyes from anything except the most transient and limited downsides and are can be quite hostile to anyone who's bearish on cryptocurrency. It's got a strong "power of positive thinking" vibe.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Where can I find my exact win rate at poker posted?
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    It should be pointed out that casinos are only required to post odds for perfect play in games that have skill (e.g. poker, blackjack). Therefore, your poker odds would be based on the rake.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      Black Jack is playing against the house and you can calculate perfect play. Poker is played against peers and perfect play does not exist. I think poker is a lot closer to speculating on crypto or stocks. Companies can disclose their transaction fees but it is impossible to calculate your expected return on investment. This is why there's almost always terms of service or disclosure to that extent
      - oneoff786 4y ago
        The best poker ai, as far as I’m aware based on things shown on hn, don’t consider past opponent behavior when making decisions. It’s effectively just a lookup table of hands and bets. Not perfect play but generally better than humans.
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        Better than humans at all levels, or your average player? Are you suggesting that every Casino publishes an AI derived win rate for poker by law?
        HWR_14 4y ago
        Perfect play, by definition, evens out. If everyone plays perfectly, then the ev should be zero (modified by position around the table). So it should balance to zero if everyone plays an equal number of hands from every position. The payoff would be adjusted by the rake.
- anjel 4y ago
  Ever tried asking a Vegas casino manager for the is on any particular slot machine? I did about 10 years ago and was informed they were proprietary.
mumblemumble 4y ago
That word "fault" is doing a lot of work. Strictly speaking, no, that bit isn't a fault, it's a great success. They did exactly what they set out to do. But there's always that separate question of whether it's a moral failing to set out to do what they did in the first place. And then you dig a little deeper and you can ask, even if we grant for the sake of argument that it's a moral failing, is it the state's responsibility to do anything about that? And then you can dig even deeper, maybe ease off on the deontological ethics a bit, and instead ask, "What's worse for society in the long run: this behavior, or whatever enforcement mechanisms it would take to curb it?" I'd argue that that's a much more edifying way to frame the question.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
It's a relatively mainstream opinion that yes they are. Casinos are not allowed in some places, many individuals who could choose otherwise explicitly choose not to work for companies involved in gambling. My morals don't personally draw that line but it's common enough that you can't dismiss it as preposterous.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Is it the casino foult that their customers loose money Since “customers losing money” is the entire business model and what casinos work to optimize, yes, obviously.
eric_cc 4y ago
> If people cant handle the basic of investing they shouldnt do it. Amen to this. Too many people in this thread are shouting from the mountain tops that they hate freedom. If you can't handle climbing a mountain, you shouldn't do it. It's really this simple. If somebody takes on risk and gets hurt it is their own fault.

dagw 4y ago

Is it the casino foult that their customers loose money Casinos are very strictly regulated and must post the exact rules and probability of winning for all their games. If the casino lies about the rules of the game or your chances of winning, then yes it is absolutely their fault and they will be held liable.

bratwurst3000 4y ago
Yes and everyone warned everyone investing in crypto that it could go from hero to zero instantly. I cant believe anyone didnt know this risk.
- SamBam 4y ago
  I failed to see any of these warnings you're talking about in any of the Superbowl ads. I'm pretty sure if I followed the Superbowl ads to crypto.com, I would fail to see these warnings. Yes, for everyone deeply connected online, who has been following crypto for the last several years, of course we've talked about plenty of warnings many times. But the current marketing campaigns are not aimed at such people.
  - bratwurst3000 4y ago
    It is bad and sad that many people lost money that didn’t want to sound like I’m not aware of that. And yes you could be right it’s just my bubble. But it’s still sad that so many people fall for get rich quick scheme.
- mescaline 4y ago
  There's a slight problem in your use of "everyone". You, personally, don't know or have sampled everyone. You are using it as a indication that "people warned" and "people should know", given people warned other people. Saying you can't believe people didn't know is just showing lack of empathy in how others form trust. Many of those people form trust by looking at a screen and seeing a nice website with nice logins and nice charts. They look at things with dollar signs and say, "that's a good number there". Others dig in and are curious about how things work. Some laugh when people complain about how much power proof-of-work takes and believe it is the eniventible conclusion to why we don't see aliens out there. Don't be the wurst person. Be the best! See that all humans need our help from an understanding technology perspective. Know that software can be implemented to take away their choices, or give them more choices than they had before.
- JackFr 4y ago
  Everyone involved in crypto is either a con or a mark. There isn't a middle ground.
- afavour 4y ago
  There was no such warning in all the high profile ads that drew people in.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Yes and everyone warned everyone investing in crypto that it could go from hero to zero instantly. I cant believe anyone didnt know this risk. Clearly not. There's a pretty clear pattern where many (most?) cryptocurrency enthusiasts avert their eyes from anything except the most transient and limited downsides and are can be quite hostile to anyone who's bearish on cryptocurrency. It's got a strong "power of positive thinking" vibe.
s1artibartfast 4y ago
Where can I find my exact win rate at poker posted?
- HWR_14 4y ago
  It should be pointed out that casinos are only required to post odds for perfect play in games that have skill (e.g. poker, blackjack). Therefore, your poker odds would be based on the rake.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Black Jack is playing against the house and you can calculate perfect play. Poker is played against peers and perfect play does not exist. I think poker is a lot closer to speculating on crypto or stocks. Companies can disclose their transaction fees but it is impossible to calculate your expected return on investment. This is why there's almost always terms of service or disclosure to that extent
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      The best poker ai, as far as I’m aware based on things shown on hn, don’t consider past opponent behavior when making decisions. It’s effectively just a lookup table of hands and bets. Not perfect play but generally better than humans.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        Better than humans at all levels, or your average player? Are you suggesting that every Casino publishes an AI derived win rate for poker by law?
        HWR_14 4y ago
        Perfect play, by definition, evens out. If everyone plays perfectly, then the ev should be zero (modified by position around the table). So it should balance to zero if everyone plays an equal number of hands from every position. The payoff would be adjusted by the rake.
anjel 4y ago
Ever tried asking a Vegas casino manager for the is on any particular slot machine? I did about 10 years ago and was informed they were proprietary.

mumblemumble 4y ago

That word "fault" is doing a lot of work. Strictly speaking, no, that bit isn't a fault, it's a great success. They did exactly what they set out to do. But there's always that separate question of whether it's a moral failing to set out to do what they did in the first place. And then you dig a little deeper and you can ask, even if we grant for the sake of argument that it's a moral failing, is it the state's responsibility to do anything about that? And then you can dig even deeper, maybe ease off on the deontological ethics a bit, and instead ask, "What's worse for society in the long run: this behavior, or whatever enforcement mechanisms it would take to curb it?" I'd argue that that's a much more edifying way to frame the question.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

It's a relatively mainstream opinion that yes they are. Casinos are not allowed in some places, many individuals who could choose otherwise explicitly choose not to work for companies involved in gambling. My morals don't personally draw that line but it's common enough that you can't dismiss it as preposterous.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Is it the casino foult that their customers loose money Since “customers losing money” is the entire business model and what casinos work to optimize, yes, obviously.

eric_cc 4y ago

> If people cant handle the basic of investing they shouldnt do it. Amen to this. Too many people in this thread are shouting from the mountain tops that they hate freedom. If you can't handle climbing a mountain, you shouldn't do it. It's really this simple. If somebody takes on risk and gets hurt it is their own fault.