9 ms·

> The same as always. Do you have a guess about who is behind that lasting global push against private communications?

by chinathrow 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
K0balt 4y ago
I’d love to know, specifically
emteycz 4y ago
Why does it have to be a somebody? It's almost every politician since the invention of privacy. It's not a cabal, they just have common goals. Edit: can't reply. The endgame is control over the population - taxing them, imprisoning them, etc. Why? I don't know, some people just like to be in (absolute) power.
- chinathrow 4y ago
  And what are these common goals then? I really don't see the endgame here.
- eru 4y ago
  It's the government version of instrumental convergence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_convergence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_convergence
hulitu 4y ago
Your government who wants to control you. Or do you still think that data is collected just so that Google can give you more ads ?
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > Your government who wants to control you How exactly? In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946. What can they do with CSAM data? Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative. Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea? They are as weak as they can be.
  - newsclues 4y ago
    "Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea?" No, but I really believe European leaders are jealous of the authoritarian powers they lack, and are working to resolve that.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > No, but I really believe European leaders are jealous of the authoritarian powers they lack, and are working to resolve that. You can believe anything you want. That wouldn't make you right. national parliaments have to pass these legislation, EU is formed by 26 countries, all with very different ideas, traditions, political stances and objectives. So, Orban? Yeah he would love to be the sole leader of his country. In my country? those that tried have been destroyed by their same allies, out of fear of having to live in someone else's shadow. If everyone wants to be the one and only leader, nobody will ever be. Opposing forces always balance themselves. Funny that all USA businesses lament that there is too much democracy in EU (like too much democracy is bad!), but now HN says that there is an imminent risk of totalitarianism...
      - newsclues 4y ago
        I’m Canadian, they seized bank accounts and used emergency laws to crush protesters. Democracy is already crumbling. And American has the NSA!
  - nix23 4y ago
    >Government can't blackmail citizen Why not? >Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea? Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > Why not? Because they can't, the moment they do, they'll be roasted for doing it. Those who tried, failed miserably. Justice system here is not run by governments, it's a completely separated power. > Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart. They control everything in the control rooms, which is not even the case oin EU democracies. Do you really believe EU governments will control every communication over the wire if this law is approved in the 26 EU countries?
c0balt 4y ago
Not gp, but I would recommend reading about the crypto wars[0] and related conflicts. While the arguments are slightly different the overall idea of needing every message to be scannable stayed the same. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars
- mgdlbp 4y ago
  the Cypherpunks FAQ (1994): 8.3.4. "How will privacy and anonymity be attacked?" ... - like so many other "computer hacker" items, as a tool for the "Four Horsemen": drug-dealers, money-launderers, terrorists, and pedophiles. ... [1] https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/crypto/cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/CP-FAQ https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/cryp... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...
nix23 4y ago
>Do you have a guess about who is behind that lasting global push against private communications? Every single government ever?
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  This is the correct answer. People are lazy; politicians, police, your mail person, YOU. It's much easier to put on some coffee and start going through CSAM alerts from the emails and texts you AI sent you overnight and see what looks promising. Sure glad we got past those silly 4th amendment weirdos (or whatever the equivalent in your country is) who think privacy is less important than making my job easier. A decade down the line, a popular right/left wing nationalist with authoritarian tendencies wins. Now he sends down a request to comb through his opponent's messages to see what he can send him (or his relatives) to prison for daring to run against Him. A cop caught you flirting with his gf, let's just see what we can dig up on him on the CriminalSearch app...

> The same as always. Do you have a guess about who is behind that lasting global push against private communications?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

K0balt 4y ago

I’d love to know, specifically

emteycz 4y ago

Why does it have to be a somebody? It's almost every politician since the invention of privacy. It's not a cabal, they just have common goals. Edit: can't reply. The endgame is control over the population - taxing them, imprisoning them, etc. Why? I don't know, some people just like to be in (absolute) power.

chinathrow 4y ago
And what are these common goals then? I really don't see the endgame here.
eru 4y ago
It's the government version of instrumental convergence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_convergence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_convergence

hulitu 4y ago

Your government who wants to control you. Or do you still think that data is collected just so that Google can give you more ads ?

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Your government who wants to control you How exactly? In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946. What can they do with CSAM data? Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative. Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea? They are as weak as they can be.
- newsclues 4y ago
  "Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea?" No, but I really believe European leaders are jealous of the authoritarian powers they lack, and are working to resolve that.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > No, but I really believe European leaders are jealous of the authoritarian powers they lack, and are working to resolve that. You can believe anything you want. That wouldn't make you right. national parliaments have to pass these legislation, EU is formed by 26 countries, all with very different ideas, traditions, political stances and objectives. So, Orban? Yeah he would love to be the sole leader of his country. In my country? those that tried have been destroyed by their same allies, out of fear of having to live in someone else's shadow. If everyone wants to be the one and only leader, nobody will ever be. Opposing forces always balance themselves. Funny that all USA businesses lament that there is too much democracy in EU (like too much democracy is bad!), but now HN says that there is an imminent risk of totalitarianism...
    - newsclues 4y ago
      I’m Canadian, they seized bank accounts and used emergency laws to crush protesters. Democracy is already crumbling. And American has the NSA!
- nix23 4y ago
  >Government can't blackmail citizen Why not? >Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea? Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > Why not? Because they can't, the moment they do, they'll be roasted for doing it. Those who tried, failed miserably. Justice system here is not run by governments, it's a completely separated power. > Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart. They control everything in the control rooms, which is not even the case oin EU democracies. Do you really believe EU governments will control every communication over the wire if this law is approved in the 26 EU countries?

c0balt 4y ago

Not gp, but I would recommend reading about the crypto wars[0] and related conflicts. While the arguments are slightly different the overall idea of needing every message to be scannable stayed the same. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars

mgdlbp 4y ago
the Cypherpunks FAQ (1994): 8.3.4. "How will privacy and anonymity be attacked?" ... - like so many other "computer hacker" items, as a tool for the "Four Horsemen": drug-dealers, money-launderers, terrorists, and pedophiles. ... [1] https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/crypto/cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/CP-FAQ https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/cryp... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

nix23 4y ago

>Do you have a guess about who is behind that lasting global push against private communications? Every single government ever?

stjohnswarts 4y ago
This is the correct answer. People are lazy; politicians, police, your mail person, YOU. It's much easier to put on some coffee and start going through CSAM alerts from the emails and texts you AI sent you overnight and see what looks promising. Sure glad we got past those silly 4th amendment weirdos (or whatever the equivalent in your country is) who think privacy is less important than making my job easier. A decade down the line, a popular right/left wing nationalist with authoritarian tendencies wins. Now he sends down a request to comb through his opponent's messages to see what he can send him (or his relatives) to prison for daring to run against Him. A cop caught you flirting with his gf, let's just see what we can dig up on him on the CriminalSearch app...