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Serious question, how do you know whether it's your product or your marketing that sucks? For example, I tried twitter ads for my product [1] and I got zero sa

Serious question, how do you know whether it's your product or your marketing that sucks? For example, I tried twitter ads for my product [1] and I got zero sales after spending $50. What are good marketing strategies for niche hardware products? [1] https://www.invisible-computers.com/ https://www.invisible-computers.com/

samatman 4y ago
Looks like it's sold out, which is a pity, I enjoy the design. You have a typo on the front page, 'eletronig' for 'electronic'.
- konschubert 4y ago
  I fixed the typo, thank you! You can leave your email to be notified when it's back in stock.
executive 4y ago
[1] looks like a hastily prepared landing page for a dropshipped AliExpress product. 1 photo, no video. Why only Google Calendar? How to 'use your phone to connect'? Is there a companion app? Why is contact page under Policies and labelled Imprint? Why 2 Privacy Policy links? About us section reads like boilerplate scam and links off-site to some random blog. Line height config looks ugly in bottom nav area. At least it works without Javascript.
- konschubert 4y ago
  Hi, thank you for having a go over it! This is great feedback. I find it really, really hard to take good pictures and even harder to take video. I am getting help with that and I hope the situation will improve. yes, there is a companion app, should I make that more clear? The contact page is labelled imprint because that's the law here in Germany... I could have an additional contact page though. The two privacy policies are because one is for visitors of the website and one is for users of my product. Two totally different contexts, and I was unsure how to fuse them. Probably also something I should get help with. I cut down on the about us section. But I agree this needs some work still...
  - executive 4y ago
    Looking better already! On clickthru Shopify page, there are some decent photos. But would replace/remove the Amazon text in one of them. Also would show the back / cord & connector. Yes, would have apps page with direct links to store. Re: contact page. Is this actually true? This page for example still says contact when viewing Germany version of page. https://teenage.engineering/contact https://teenage.engineering/contact Re: privacy: you could have one link, with some way to show both once you get to that page. Few will read this anyway, may as well not clutter home page with 2 links. Good luck my friend.
    - konschubert 4y ago
      Thank you
    - VonGallifrey 4y ago
      > Re: contact page. Is this actually true? This page for example still says contact when viewing Germany version of page. That is a Swedish site and as a foreign organisation, they are exempt from the Imprint requirement in Germany. Imprint is generally something that should be present on a german website, though it isn't really enforced. You could get sued though if you don't have it.
sofixa 4y ago
That's precisely the thing i am going to be looking for soon. Yours looks pretty good, but i find the product page to be a bit lacking in detail and polish ( including typos like "come with wooden stand" instead of "comes"), which can be off-putting.
corobo 4y ago
If your business wraps up does this turn into a pretty brick? My instant wonder and would be a deal breaker until I found out if the device pulls from the calendar directly or via a proxy you run if it helps any Going by the language in the privacy policy it’s the proxy method. I’d have to pass, personally. Looks great but I got no use for it if you shut down Also it’s “sold out” so I assume it doesn’t and won’t exist until you get enough interest. For me this is more an impulse buy, give me a week thinking about it and I’d forget about it completely (then 2 years later I get an email “xyzzy is complete and shipping now!” with no reminder of what it is)
- konschubert 4y ago
  It’s pretty cheap to keep the API running and I promised myself I’d be doing that for many years even if I make 0 money with it. But I want to be upfront about the fact that there are things beyond my control that might force me to shut down some or all functionality. For example, if google shuts down access to the calendar API, the calendar feature will be in trouble.
  - ashes-of-sol 4y ago
Multiplayer 4y ago
I’ll buy one. Agree with the comments that you need to put a little time in to describe this thing in a lot more detail! That said, I would love to have my calendar always just sitting there on my desk. This is the perfect item for anyone with adhd or similar. I would target that niche.
- konschubert 4y ago
  I’ve heard that before from another customer, that it’s a good product for ADHD.
openknot 4y ago
Twitter ads are widely seen as ineffective versus other advertising channels (to verify for yourself, you can check r/PPC, r/marketing, and other subreddits via a site:reddit.com Google search). Results are likely lower due to poorer analytics, which translates to your ads not appearing to the most relevant people. Google Search Ads and Facebook/Instagram ads are seen as more effective in comparison (results are likely higher as Facebook/Meta are relatively better at analytics, so advertisements appear to more relevant people). In addition, $50 is not a lot to spend on an ad campaign. It generally takes a higher number of advertisement views by the same person (preferably across different websites and channels) to produce an intended result.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  Let's say you are a guy in a basement spending your own money. What is the minimum spend that you see for advertising to be at all effective?
  - openknot 4y ago
    It depends on what you’re selling, but roughly $500 per month is seen as solid on the r/PPC forum (that is, no major objections when brought up), with $100 a month as not outrageous (especially as a starting point). My assumption is that the forum is credible and not astroturfed (which seems fairly reasonable from intuition). I wish there were a scientific study to lean on as a more credible source. I personally don’t have direct experience for budgets smaller than $1,000 a month, back when I did work with some non-profits. Roughly $100 a month sounds plausibly viable at the lowest uncomfortable end with skill, but you also need that skill in graphic design to make an effective ad, persuasive writing, and a good idea of how to target the right audience. That perspective also costs time to learn from books and/or money if outsourced.
bemmu 4y ago
You might be able to get some customers with that spend on average, but could have hit zero just from bad luck (randomness is clumpy). Customers can easily cost tens of dollars to acquire. As an example, for my own subscription box service the cost to acquire a customer from YouTube ads was ~$49.
- iratewizard 4y ago
  Do you have any plans to bring Japan candy back to life?
happimess 4y ago
Rad product! Can I feed it arbitrary images/html/something?
- konschubert 4y ago
  Yes, arbitrary images, you just have to specify the image url. Here are the instructions, so you can see how it works: https://www.invisible-computers.com/invisible-calendar/image-url-manual.html https://www.invisible-computers.com/invisible-calendar/image...
aidos 4y ago
Yeah, your website sucks. The product looks really nice, but the landing page barely even feels like it wants me to check it out. I can barely even tell it’s a landing page. I was actually thinking about exactly this product earlier this week. I have kids and their schedule is really complicated these days - some days some of them need packed lunches, uniform is different on PE days etc etc. I want to walk into the kitchen and have the details for the day right there. There’s a real use for the product, you need to work on the landing page (I’d suggest considering starting again with a template)
- konschubert 4y ago
  Puh, I tried so hard with that website. I don't know, design and marketing is just sooo hard for me. Do you have a template that you think I should use? And do you know maybe somebody who could help me build a better landing page without costing me all my life savings?
  - cercatrova 4y ago
    Make a website with an online builder and use their templates. For example: - Webflow: https://webflow.com/templates https://webflow.com/templates - SquareSpace: https://www.squarespace.com/templates https://www.squarespace.com/templates - Shopify: https://themes.shopify.com/ https://themes.shopify.com/ I'd recommend Shopify, and a minimalist, light theme such as the one below, since your product is made of light wood. https://themes.shopify.com/themes/craft/styles/default?surface_detail=free-themes&surface_inter_position=1&surface_intra_position=1&surface_type=collection https://themes.shopify.com/themes/craft/styles/default?surfa...
    - konschubert 4y ago
      I already use shopify for the shop page, https://shop.invisible-computers.com/products/invisible-calendar https://shop.invisible-computers.com/products/invisible-cale... But I’ve been wary of using it for the whole website since I didn’t want my whole page structure and content coupled to shopify. And I didn’t want it all to feel like a shopify store. But maybe that was a bad priority and I should just get over it. Thanks for the tip with the theme, btw
sdwr 4y ago
Piling on for some feedback here. This isnt a product that people need. Everyone already has access to a calendar on their phone, on paper, on a whiteboard, whatever. So it has to be something people want. And it doesnt look cool/sleek/exciting enough for people to want it. The bezel is huge, its black and white, and looks overpriced. Some marketing angles work, but your product has to honestly support them. Ex: - hackable. Need to show off connection interface, API, some cool project examples. As far as I can tell, LEDs never hurt here. - sophisticated/elegant. - useful. Seems easier to use /better than what people are already doing. - cool. Buys access to a group of exciting people you wouldn't get to meet otherwise. But the absolute best way to market a hardware product is to stop making it about tech. My dad bought a digital picture frame a while back as a gift. Thats a way easier bar to clear, its emotional, sentimental, symbolic, so the technical execution doesnt need to be as flawless.
hgomersall 4y ago
Hey, this is kind of cool! If only it supported caldav I might get one.
s1mon 4y ago
It's not clear who your product is for. "Everyone" is the wrong answer, BTW. If you try to make everyone happy, you usually end up making no one happy. It's super important to focus on actual user problems. 1. Is this solving a pain point the user has already? 2. Do they currently have some less-than-great solution in place? 3. Are they willing to pay for something which will solve their problem? Looking at your product, I see a possible market, but it might need to be tuned (UX and/or marketing) to be successful. A relative of mine needs 24/7 in-home care. There are a number of people involved and a decent number of Dr appointments etc to coordinate. The people involved with elder care are super low tech, but in her case, a shared visible calendar could be useful. In general, the products for seniors and/or people with dementia or other disabilities tend to have horrible design and still aren't really suited to physical/cognitive challenges of the users and their caregivers. It's a niche, but one that could use a lot of developments.
- konschubert 4y ago
  Hi s1mon, thanks for your feedback. I'd say I have two customer groups in mind: 1. Technologically open-minded people who have a bit of money and want an e-paper calendar in their office or for their family. They can buy my e paper screen and set it up with the mobile app in 2 minutes. 2. Developers who want to build their own e-paper application and need a platform to build it on. They can buy my device and use the image-url feature to display their own designs.
Nimitz14 4y ago
I don't think the landing page is bad. Product seems cool. I don't agree with the people talking about extra features. The main issue I feel is that this is something only people with quite a bit of money and leisure can afford (because it's not solving a direct problem, it's just for convenience). So you need something on the page that will unconsciously persuade these people that it's cool. It's an upmarket product but the website doesn't advertise it as such. Rather than doing online ads I think a promo vid with a progressive looking family / hipsters would be more effective. ;)

samatman 4y ago

Looks like it's sold out, which is a pity, I enjoy the design. You have a typo on the front page, 'eletronig' for 'electronic'.

konschubert 4y ago
I fixed the typo, thank you! You can leave your email to be notified when it's back in stock.

executive 4y ago

[1] looks like a hastily prepared landing page for a dropshipped AliExpress product. 1 photo, no video. Why only Google Calendar? How to 'use your phone to connect'? Is there a companion app? Why is contact page under Policies and labelled Imprint? Why 2 Privacy Policy links? About us section reads like boilerplate scam and links off-site to some random blog. Line height config looks ugly in bottom nav area. At least it works without Javascript.

konschubert 4y ago
Hi, thank you for having a go over it! This is great feedback. I find it really, really hard to take good pictures and even harder to take video. I am getting help with that and I hope the situation will improve. yes, there is a companion app, should I make that more clear? The contact page is labelled imprint because that's the law here in Germany... I could have an additional contact page though. The two privacy policies are because one is for visitors of the website and one is for users of my product. Two totally different contexts, and I was unsure how to fuse them. Probably also something I should get help with. I cut down on the about us section. But I agree this needs some work still...
- executive 4y ago
  Looking better already! On clickthru Shopify page, there are some decent photos. But would replace/remove the Amazon text in one of them. Also would show the back / cord & connector. Yes, would have apps page with direct links to store. Re: contact page. Is this actually true? This page for example still says contact when viewing Germany version of page. https://teenage.engineering/contact https://teenage.engineering/contact Re: privacy: you could have one link, with some way to show both once you get to that page. Few will read this anyway, may as well not clutter home page with 2 links. Good luck my friend.
  - konschubert 4y ago
    Thank you
  - VonGallifrey 4y ago
    > Re: contact page. Is this actually true? This page for example still says contact when viewing Germany version of page. That is a Swedish site and as a foreign organisation, they are exempt from the Imprint requirement in Germany. Imprint is generally something that should be present on a german website, though it isn't really enforced. You could get sued though if you don't have it.

sofixa 4y ago

That's precisely the thing i am going to be looking for soon. Yours looks pretty good, but i find the product page to be a bit lacking in detail and polish ( including typos like "come with wooden stand" instead of "comes"), which can be off-putting.

corobo 4y ago

If your business wraps up does this turn into a pretty brick? My instant wonder and would be a deal breaker until I found out if the device pulls from the calendar directly or via a proxy you run if it helps any Going by the language in the privacy policy it’s the proxy method. I’d have to pass, personally. Looks great but I got no use for it if you shut down Also it’s “sold out” so I assume it doesn’t and won’t exist until you get enough interest. For me this is more an impulse buy, give me a week thinking about it and I’d forget about it completely (then 2 years later I get an email “xyzzy is complete and shipping now!” with no reminder of what it is)

konschubert 4y ago
It’s pretty cheap to keep the API running and I promised myself I’d be doing that for many years even if I make 0 money with it. But I want to be upfront about the fact that there are things beyond my control that might force me to shut down some or all functionality. For example, if google shuts down access to the calendar API, the calendar feature will be in trouble.
- ashes-of-sol 4y ago

Multiplayer 4y ago

I’ll buy one. Agree with the comments that you need to put a little time in to describe this thing in a lot more detail! That said, I would love to have my calendar always just sitting there on my desk. This is the perfect item for anyone with adhd or similar. I would target that niche.

konschubert 4y ago
I’ve heard that before from another customer, that it’s a good product for ADHD.

openknot 4y ago

Twitter ads are widely seen as ineffective versus other advertising channels (to verify for yourself, you can check r/PPC, r/marketing, and other subreddits via a site:reddit.com Google search). Results are likely lower due to poorer analytics, which translates to your ads not appearing to the most relevant people. Google Search Ads and Facebook/Instagram ads are seen as more effective in comparison (results are likely higher as Facebook/Meta are relatively better at analytics, so advertisements appear to more relevant people). In addition, $50 is not a lot to spend on an ad campaign. It generally takes a higher number of advertisement views by the same person (preferably across different websites and channels) to produce an intended result.

willcipriano 4y ago
Let's say you are a guy in a basement spending your own money. What is the minimum spend that you see for advertising to be at all effective?
- openknot 4y ago
  It depends on what you’re selling, but roughly $500 per month is seen as solid on the r/PPC forum (that is, no major objections when brought up), with $100 a month as not outrageous (especially as a starting point). My assumption is that the forum is credible and not astroturfed (which seems fairly reasonable from intuition). I wish there were a scientific study to lean on as a more credible source. I personally don’t have direct experience for budgets smaller than $1,000 a month, back when I did work with some non-profits. Roughly $100 a month sounds plausibly viable at the lowest uncomfortable end with skill, but you also need that skill in graphic design to make an effective ad, persuasive writing, and a good idea of how to target the right audience. That perspective also costs time to learn from books and/or money if outsourced.

bemmu 4y ago

You might be able to get some customers with that spend on average, but could have hit zero just from bad luck (randomness is clumpy). Customers can easily cost tens of dollars to acquire. As an example, for my own subscription box service the cost to acquire a customer from YouTube ads was ~$49.

iratewizard 4y ago
Do you have any plans to bring Japan candy back to life?

happimess 4y ago

Rad product! Can I feed it arbitrary images/html/something?

konschubert 4y ago
Yes, arbitrary images, you just have to specify the image url. Here are the instructions, so you can see how it works: https://www.invisible-computers.com/invisible-calendar/image-url-manual.html https://www.invisible-computers.com/invisible-calendar/image...

aidos 4y ago

Yeah, your website sucks. The product looks really nice, but the landing page barely even feels like it wants me to check it out. I can barely even tell it’s a landing page. I was actually thinking about exactly this product earlier this week. I have kids and their schedule is really complicated these days - some days some of them need packed lunches, uniform is different on PE days etc etc. I want to walk into the kitchen and have the details for the day right there. There’s a real use for the product, you need to work on the landing page (I’d suggest considering starting again with a template)

konschubert 4y ago
Puh, I tried so hard with that website. I don't know, design and marketing is just sooo hard for me. Do you have a template that you think I should use? And do you know maybe somebody who could help me build a better landing page without costing me all my life savings?
- cercatrova 4y ago
  Make a website with an online builder and use their templates. For example: - Webflow: https://webflow.com/templates https://webflow.com/templates - SquareSpace: https://www.squarespace.com/templates https://www.squarespace.com/templates - Shopify: https://themes.shopify.com/ https://themes.shopify.com/ I'd recommend Shopify, and a minimalist, light theme such as the one below, since your product is made of light wood. https://themes.shopify.com/themes/craft/styles/default?surface_detail=free-themes&surface_inter_position=1&surface_intra_position=1&surface_type=collection https://themes.shopify.com/themes/craft/styles/default?surfa...
  - konschubert 4y ago
    I already use shopify for the shop page, https://shop.invisible-computers.com/products/invisible-calendar https://shop.invisible-computers.com/products/invisible-cale... But I’ve been wary of using it for the whole website since I didn’t want my whole page structure and content coupled to shopify. And I didn’t want it all to feel like a shopify store. But maybe that was a bad priority and I should just get over it. Thanks for the tip with the theme, btw

sdwr 4y ago

Piling on for some feedback here. This isnt a product that people need. Everyone already has access to a calendar on their phone, on paper, on a whiteboard, whatever. So it has to be something people want. And it doesnt look cool/sleek/exciting enough for people to want it. The bezel is huge, its black and white, and looks overpriced. Some marketing angles work, but your product has to honestly support them. Ex: - hackable. Need to show off connection interface, API, some cool project examples. As far as I can tell, LEDs never hurt here. - sophisticated/elegant. - useful. Seems easier to use /better than what people are already doing. - cool. Buys access to a group of exciting people you wouldn't get to meet otherwise. But the absolute best way to market a hardware product is to stop making it about tech. My dad bought a digital picture frame a while back as a gift. Thats a way easier bar to clear, its emotional, sentimental, symbolic, so the technical execution doesnt need to be as flawless.

hgomersall 4y ago

Hey, this is kind of cool! If only it supported caldav I might get one.

s1mon 4y ago

It's not clear who your product is for. "Everyone" is the wrong answer, BTW. If you try to make everyone happy, you usually end up making no one happy. It's super important to focus on actual user problems. 1. Is this solving a pain point the user has already? 2. Do they currently have some less-than-great solution in place? 3. Are they willing to pay for something which will solve their problem? Looking at your product, I see a possible market, but it might need to be tuned (UX and/or marketing) to be successful. A relative of mine needs 24/7 in-home care. There are a number of people involved and a decent number of Dr appointments etc to coordinate. The people involved with elder care are super low tech, but in her case, a shared visible calendar could be useful. In general, the products for seniors and/or people with dementia or other disabilities tend to have horrible design and still aren't really suited to physical/cognitive challenges of the users and their caregivers. It's a niche, but one that could use a lot of developments.

konschubert 4y ago
Hi s1mon, thanks for your feedback. I'd say I have two customer groups in mind: 1. Technologically open-minded people who have a bit of money and want an e-paper calendar in their office or for their family. They can buy my e paper screen and set it up with the mobile app in 2 minutes. 2. Developers who want to build their own e-paper application and need a platform to build it on. They can buy my device and use the image-url feature to display their own designs.

Nimitz14 4y ago

I don't think the landing page is bad. Product seems cool. I don't agree with the people talking about extra features. The main issue I feel is that this is something only people with quite a bit of money and leisure can afford (because it's not solving a direct problem, it's just for convenience). So you need something on the page that will unconsciously persuade these people that it's cool. It's an upmarket product but the website doesn't advertise it as such. Rather than doing online ads I think a promo vid with a progressive looking family / hipsters would be more effective. ;)