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Why? It's the most efficient use of resources and allows for some great cultural and public infrastructure to exist that just doesn't make sense without density

Why? It's the most efficient use of resources and allows for some great cultural and public infrastructure to exist that just doesn't make sense without density.

vetinari 4y ago
Just because it is most efficient, does not mean it is enjoyable or that the life in such a hive isn't missing some qualities.
- pantalaimon 4y ago
  I find it quite enjoyable, everything is just a walk away and good public transport makes sense. You have enough people that even niche cultural offers will find an audience.
- ChadNauseam 4y ago
  If you don’t find it enjoyable you’re welcome to not move there. Why try to ban it for everyone else?
  - vetinari 4y ago
    I might be already there. Why do you want to move in and spoil it for us, who are already there? Find some other place, where building human hives is more welcome.
Tade0 4y ago
Is efficiency for the sake of efficiency worth it though? There's a second order effect I observed which I feel isn't discussed enough: when it's assumed that you can only walk/cycle or perhaps take the bus in an area, suddenly there's an additional premium imposed on space. The net result is accelerated gentrification. Anecdata: just about anyone I know from my generation was priced out of those walkable districts with access to public transportation they grew up in - simply because investors are aware of what is in demand, so they put all their money there and not into places you can only reliably access via car. What follows is people buying not homes, but apartments built in the middle of buttfuck nowhere and driving to/from there, because that's what they can afford. A net negative, but here we are. I'm all for livable cities, but what good is it if the only ones who can afford it are the 1%?
- pantalaimon 4y ago
  That argument is ridiculous. So dense neighborhoods are popular, therefore prices are rising because more people want to live in a dense neighborhood. The solution to that is not "let's build more undesirable neighborhoods so prices are not increasing" but to change zoning regulations so more dense neighborhoods can be build to satisfy demand!
  - Tade0 4y ago
    The point I'm making is different - cars give you range and thus leverage in situations where you would otherwise be forced to buy/rent real estate close to the place you work/shop at and have to compete over it with those who buy it purely for investment purposes. Sure, this is suboptimal and those who opt to live further away and drive everywhere lose time and money but often they're not even eligible for a mortgage within city limits, so they don't have much of a choice anyway.
  - tluyben2 4y ago
    Or are they living there for jobs? That’s what I always hear as excuse for people to live there, not that they like dense neighbourhoods. I am old though so my network and (news/social) reading habits might be different.
    - MiddleEndian 4y ago
      I like living in a dense city. I can walk almost everywhere, I don't need a car, there's nice parks, things are open later (although not late enough for my preferences sometimes), there's good variety of restaurants, entertainment, art, food, bars, dancing, sports, clubs for nerds, and so on. The outer walls of my condo are made of concrete, I hear less from my neighbors than when I lived in a house. The jobs situation is/was also convenient, but I now work remotely and still enjoy living in the city. Of course, I'm sure there are plenty of people who live in a city and don't like it, and also plenty of people who would prefer to live in the city but cannot afford it or their circumstances keep them somewhere more remote. If my circumstances change so that I do not enjoy it anymore, or if my material needs change, then I'll adapt appropriately, whether it's moving to a different neighborhood, to a beach town, to the mountains, or to the moon.
pueblito 4y ago
It’s disgusting, that’s why. People stacked on each other living in shared filth breathing each other’s farts and hearing noise all the time… not to mention the obvious problem of how diseases spread in tight quarters.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  If your idea of modern architecture is based on a slum maybe you should travel more.

Why? It's the most efficient use of resources and allows for some great cultural and public infrastructure to exist that just doesn't make sense without density.

vetinari 4y ago

Just because it is most efficient, does not mean it is enjoyable or that the life in such a hive isn't missing some qualities.

pantalaimon 4y ago
I find it quite enjoyable, everything is just a walk away and good public transport makes sense. You have enough people that even niche cultural offers will find an audience.
ChadNauseam 4y ago
If you don’t find it enjoyable you’re welcome to not move there. Why try to ban it for everyone else?
- vetinari 4y ago
  I might be already there. Why do you want to move in and spoil it for us, who are already there? Find some other place, where building human hives is more welcome.

Tade0 4y ago

Is efficiency for the sake of efficiency worth it though? There's a second order effect I observed which I feel isn't discussed enough: when it's assumed that you can only walk/cycle or perhaps take the bus in an area, suddenly there's an additional premium imposed on space. The net result is accelerated gentrification. Anecdata: just about anyone I know from my generation was priced out of those walkable districts with access to public transportation they grew up in - simply because investors are aware of what is in demand, so they put all their money there and not into places you can only reliably access via car. What follows is people buying not homes, but apartments built in the middle of buttfuck nowhere and driving to/from there, because that's what they can afford. A net negative, but here we are. I'm all for livable cities, but what good is it if the only ones who can afford it are the 1%?

pantalaimon 4y ago
That argument is ridiculous. So dense neighborhoods are popular, therefore prices are rising because more people want to live in a dense neighborhood. The solution to that is not "let's build more undesirable neighborhoods so prices are not increasing" but to change zoning regulations so more dense neighborhoods can be build to satisfy demand!
- Tade0 4y ago
  The point I'm making is different - cars give you range and thus leverage in situations where you would otherwise be forced to buy/rent real estate close to the place you work/shop at and have to compete over it with those who buy it purely for investment purposes. Sure, this is suboptimal and those who opt to live further away and drive everywhere lose time and money but often they're not even eligible for a mortgage within city limits, so they don't have much of a choice anyway.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  Or are they living there for jobs? That’s what I always hear as excuse for people to live there, not that they like dense neighbourhoods. I am old though so my network and (news/social) reading habits might be different.
  - MiddleEndian 4y ago
    I like living in a dense city. I can walk almost everywhere, I don't need a car, there's nice parks, things are open later (although not late enough for my preferences sometimes), there's good variety of restaurants, entertainment, art, food, bars, dancing, sports, clubs for nerds, and so on. The outer walls of my condo are made of concrete, I hear less from my neighbors than when I lived in a house. The jobs situation is/was also convenient, but I now work remotely and still enjoy living in the city. Of course, I'm sure there are plenty of people who live in a city and don't like it, and also plenty of people who would prefer to live in the city but cannot afford it or their circumstances keep them somewhere more remote. If my circumstances change so that I do not enjoy it anymore, or if my material needs change, then I'll adapt appropriately, whether it's moving to a different neighborhood, to a beach town, to the mountains, or to the moon.

pueblito 4y ago

It’s disgusting, that’s why. People stacked on each other living in shared filth breathing each other’s farts and hearing noise all the time… not to mention the obvious problem of how diseases spread in tight quarters.

goodpoint 4y ago
If your idea of modern architecture is based on a slum maybe you should travel more.