8 ms·

A big fallacy that I always see - and that is implied by this post - is that the work ends after shipping, a.k.a. "build it and they will come". That doesn't ha

A big fallacy that I always see - and that is implied by this post - is that the work ends after shipping, a.k.a. "build it and they will come". That doesn't happen any more. So after you "ship" it, you need to promote it, advertise it, create buzz around it and make people use it. And that is a totally different kind of beast than coding something. But on the flip side, if you develop a side project just for yourself, you most certainly learn something. Heck, the author explicitly mentioned learning React Native, which is absolutely great and definitely worth investing time into. Learning things is valuable in itself.

aliswe 4y ago
most importantly you also need to continue developing it
Chris2048 4y ago
Yes, Given they couldn't develop the app without planning the release, I wonder if they'd have time to properly support it if they shipped..
OrwellianTimes 4y ago
'So I deployed it on Vercel, bought a domain name and posted it on the brand twitter account we created a few days ago. Why am I not getting users?'
bambax 4y ago
> "build it and they will come" I also used to think that build it and they will come was a big fallacy, but it's not really. The fallacy is, "build it and the whole world will fight to get what you built". That sure won't happen by itself or by chance. But if you build something reasonably good, some people will come. That may not be enough for you to make a living out of it, but it will make it worthwhile. > Learning things is valuable in itself. From the same author: > Open source, writing blog posts, and playing with tweaking lint settings and editor themes all day are completely fine until your landlord knocks on your door or you're at the checkout at the grocery store. You're doing a crazy 2-hour commute every day telling yourself "well at least I'm learning a lot about SVG". Fuck that. https://kitze.io/posts/github-stars-wont-pay-your-rent https://kitze.io/posts/github-stars-wont-pay-your-rent (I am actually, currently learning a lot about SVG and love it; but the quote is right that it's not paying the rent.)
- pflenker 4y ago
  Learning helps you pay your rent in the long run though, as it lifts your overall qualification level.
  - dasyatidprime 4y ago
    That can decay to ~zero from a career-agency standpoint though if it's not the limiting reagent for professional access to the next level—that is, if the assignments you can get next all include the same thing at the same speed regardless of whether you also learn it independently or not.
- sam0x17 4y ago
  One thing I've found to not be fallacious is "if you don't want them to come, they will come". With open source this is so true. My projects that I don't want to actively maintain anymore are always the ones that generate lots of issues and pull requests and stars, versus the ones I actually use on a daily basis that no one but me cares about.
tootie 4y ago
I saw one startup whose "launch" was a splash page with a logo, description of an imaginary product they hadn't built yet and a Hubspot signup form that you sign up for news. These guys had it right. Get customer insight while you build features. In fact, they were building something that has been solved since before the computer was invented, they were just going to have a splashy brand.
konschubert 4y ago
Serious question, how do you know whether it's your product or your marketing that sucks? For example, I tried twitter ads for my product [1] and I got zero sales after spending $50. What are good marketing strategies for niche hardware products? [1] https://www.invisible-computers.com/ https://www.invisible-computers.com/
- samatman 4y ago
  Looks like it's sold out, which is a pity, I enjoy the design. You have a typo on the front page, 'eletronig' for 'electronic'.
  - konschubert 4y ago
    I fixed the typo, thank you! You can leave your email to be notified when it's back in stock.
- executive 4y ago
  [1] looks like a hastily prepared landing page for a dropshipped AliExpress product. 1 photo, no video. Why only Google Calendar? How to 'use your phone to connect'? Is there a companion app? Why is contact page under Policies and labelled Imprint? Why 2 Privacy Policy links? About us section reads like boilerplate scam and links off-site to some random blog. Line height config looks ugly in bottom nav area. At least it works without Javascript.
  - konschubert 4y ago
    Hi, thank you for having a go over it! This is great feedback. I find it really, really hard to take good pictures and even harder to take video. I am getting help with that and I hope the situation will improve. yes, there is a companion app, should I make that more clear? The contact page is labelled imprint because that's the law here in Germany... I could have an additional contact page though. The two privacy policies are because one is for visitors of the website and one is for users of my product. Two totally different contexts, and I was unsure how to fuse them. Probably also something I should get help with. I cut down on the about us section. But I agree this needs some work still...
lbriner 4y ago
I think like others have said, it does depend on whether you are targetting the mass market or a smaller (and hopefully more lucrative) niche. Plenty of companies don't do what you say and still become successful. However, for a pure software solution with little market expertise, I suspect what you are saying is correct because the barrier is so low. If you can "build an app" in a weekend, so can 1000s of other people.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  They "can" but will they?
  - psygn89 4y ago
    If it prints money and can be made in a weekend then of course. However, the more niche it is to an audience or knowledge needed beforehand (i.e. simple music generator) it would no longer be a weekend project.
    - VMtest 4y ago
      this is with regards to GP GP asked 'They "can" but will they?' No, they won't in reality most people won't do it because they don't know whether it will print money your comment "If it prints money" doesn't apply in reality and it comes off as if you won this argument to HN readers, which in fact no
anothersullivan 4y ago
I completely agree. A couple months ago I received the same "Ship It" advice on a HN Comment. I did, but no one came. Marketing feels like an orthogonal skill but can not be overstated enough.
- alexalx666 4y ago
  I think it was the book called Blitzscaling that talked about the fact that some kind of "unfair advantage" with regards to access to market should be built in to your product. They mentioned LinkedIn and their "import address book" feature
pkrumins 4y ago
You're so wrong. I built it and they came. And when I say they, I mean millions of users. Here's my blog post about it: https://catonmat.net/if-you-build-it-they-will-come https://catonmat.net/if-you-build-it-they-will-come
- pflenker 4y ago
  Congratulations! Though in claiming that since it worked in your case, it will work in the majority of cases you commit the anecdotal evidence fallacy.
  - aliswe 4y ago
    aka Survivorship bias.
    - pkrumins 4y ago
      Aka the best type of bias.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        It's certainly the best bias to suffer from as it means your project succeeded. It does mean people should take your advice with a grain of salt.
      - ashes-of-sol 4y ago
  - pkrumins 4y ago
    Thanks! I love the anecdotal evidence fallacy. It's my favorite fallacy.
UnpossibleJim 4y ago
I also think they didn't learn one important lesson (maybe). MVP's don't need bells and whistles. Stop adding that "one last thing". It's a Minimum Viable Product. It should be lean, and somewhat polished. Add features later.
dylan604 4y ago
The biggest fallacy in my experience is that the thing you built isn't done at ship because your first build is only what you thought of to build. Your users might need some of what you built, but the feature requests will quickly show you that you only thought a fraction of the possible things a user would want.
sharps_xp 4y ago

aliswe 4y ago

most importantly you also need to continue developing it

Chris2048 4y ago

Yes, Given they couldn't develop the app without planning the release, I wonder if they'd have time to properly support it if they shipped..

OrwellianTimes 4y ago

'So I deployed it on Vercel, bought a domain name and posted it on the brand twitter account we created a few days ago. Why am I not getting users?'

bambax 4y ago

> "build it and they will come" I also used to think that build it and they will come was a big fallacy, but it's not really. The fallacy is, "build it and the whole world will fight to get what you built". That sure won't happen by itself or by chance. But if you build something reasonably good, some people will come. That may not be enough for you to make a living out of it, but it will make it worthwhile. > Learning things is valuable in itself. From the same author: > Open source, writing blog posts, and playing with tweaking lint settings and editor themes all day are completely fine until your landlord knocks on your door or you're at the checkout at the grocery store. You're doing a crazy 2-hour commute every day telling yourself "well at least I'm learning a lot about SVG". Fuck that. https://kitze.io/posts/github-stars-wont-pay-your-rent https://kitze.io/posts/github-stars-wont-pay-your-rent (I am actually, currently learning a lot about SVG and love it; but the quote is right that it's not paying the rent.)

pflenker 4y ago
Learning helps you pay your rent in the long run though, as it lifts your overall qualification level.
- dasyatidprime 4y ago
  That can decay to ~zero from a career-agency standpoint though if it's not the limiting reagent for professional access to the next level—that is, if the assignments you can get next all include the same thing at the same speed regardless of whether you also learn it independently or not.
sam0x17 4y ago
One thing I've found to not be fallacious is "if you don't want them to come, they will come". With open source this is so true. My projects that I don't want to actively maintain anymore are always the ones that generate lots of issues and pull requests and stars, versus the ones I actually use on a daily basis that no one but me cares about.

tootie 4y ago

I saw one startup whose "launch" was a splash page with a logo, description of an imaginary product they hadn't built yet and a Hubspot signup form that you sign up for news. These guys had it right. Get customer insight while you build features. In fact, they were building something that has been solved since before the computer was invented, they were just going to have a splashy brand.

konschubert 4y ago

Serious question, how do you know whether it's your product or your marketing that sucks? For example, I tried twitter ads for my product [1] and I got zero sales after spending $50. What are good marketing strategies for niche hardware products? [1] https://www.invisible-computers.com/ https://www.invisible-computers.com/

samatman 4y ago
Looks like it's sold out, which is a pity, I enjoy the design. You have a typo on the front page, 'eletronig' for 'electronic'.
- konschubert 4y ago
  I fixed the typo, thank you! You can leave your email to be notified when it's back in stock.
executive 4y ago
[1] looks like a hastily prepared landing page for a dropshipped AliExpress product. 1 photo, no video. Why only Google Calendar? How to 'use your phone to connect'? Is there a companion app? Why is contact page under Policies and labelled Imprint? Why 2 Privacy Policy links? About us section reads like boilerplate scam and links off-site to some random blog. Line height config looks ugly in bottom nav area. At least it works without Javascript.
- konschubert 4y ago
  Hi, thank you for having a go over it! This is great feedback. I find it really, really hard to take good pictures and even harder to take video. I am getting help with that and I hope the situation will improve. yes, there is a companion app, should I make that more clear? The contact page is labelled imprint because that's the law here in Germany... I could have an additional contact page though. The two privacy policies are because one is for visitors of the website and one is for users of my product. Two totally different contexts, and I was unsure how to fuse them. Probably also something I should get help with. I cut down on the about us section. But I agree this needs some work still...

lbriner 4y ago

I think like others have said, it does depend on whether you are targetting the mass market or a smaller (and hopefully more lucrative) niche. Plenty of companies don't do what you say and still become successful. However, for a pure software solution with little market expertise, I suspect what you are saying is correct because the barrier is so low. If you can "build an app" in a weekend, so can 1000s of other people.

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
They "can" but will they?
- psygn89 4y ago
  If it prints money and can be made in a weekend then of course. However, the more niche it is to an audience or knowledge needed beforehand (i.e. simple music generator) it would no longer be a weekend project.
  - VMtest 4y ago
    this is with regards to GP GP asked 'They "can" but will they?' No, they won't in reality most people won't do it because they don't know whether it will print money your comment "If it prints money" doesn't apply in reality and it comes off as if you won this argument to HN readers, which in fact no

anothersullivan 4y ago

I completely agree. A couple months ago I received the same "Ship It" advice on a HN Comment. I did, but no one came. Marketing feels like an orthogonal skill but can not be overstated enough.

alexalx666 4y ago
I think it was the book called Blitzscaling that talked about the fact that some kind of "unfair advantage" with regards to access to market should be built in to your product. They mentioned LinkedIn and their "import address book" feature

pkrumins 4y ago

You're so wrong. I built it and they came. And when I say they, I mean millions of users. Here's my blog post about it: https://catonmat.net/if-you-build-it-they-will-come https://catonmat.net/if-you-build-it-they-will-come

pflenker 4y ago
Congratulations! Though in claiming that since it worked in your case, it will work in the majority of cases you commit the anecdotal evidence fallacy.
- aliswe 4y ago
  aka Survivorship bias.
  - pkrumins 4y ago
    Aka the best type of bias.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      It's certainly the best bias to suffer from as it means your project succeeded. It does mean people should take your advice with a grain of salt.
    - ashes-of-sol 4y ago
- pkrumins 4y ago
  Thanks! I love the anecdotal evidence fallacy. It's my favorite fallacy.

UnpossibleJim 4y ago

I also think they didn't learn one important lesson (maybe). MVP's don't need bells and whistles. Stop adding that "one last thing". It's a Minimum Viable Product. It should be lean, and somewhat polished. Add features later.

dylan604 4y ago

The biggest fallacy in my experience is that the thing you built isn't done at ship because your first build is only what you thought of to build. Your users might need some of what you built, but the feature requests will quickly show you that you only thought a fraction of the possible things a user would want.

sharps_xp 4y ago