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I can't help but feel overtones of contempt when reading this. "They typically don't get statues and for the most part are vastly overshadowed by those that pr

I can't help but feel overtones of contempt when reading this. "They typically don't get statues and for the most part are vastly overshadowed by those that profited from their work more than they ever did." I read that as: Steve Jobs stole Steve Wozniak's thunder. That is to say "Wozniak was overshadowed by Jobs", or "Jobs profited off the back of Wozniak's work". As if what Steve Jobs did wasn't worthy of adoration. There's this sort-of battle that is constantly waged between those who create (programmers, engineers, etc), and those who hustle (entrepreneurs, non-tech founders, bizdev, salesmen etc). Both creators and hustlers feel under-appreciated and under-recognized for their respective talents. It's a vicious cycle. I really question why it has to be this way. I'm a bit of a cross-over, so I relate to both camps. The conflict is frustrating to me, because the validity of either side's argument is supported only when one attempts to marginalize the other. There's no good reason that these two types of people shouldn't be 100% complimentary. I'm definitely more in the hustler camp than I am the creator camp. I can throw down some code (poorly), and I do all the sysadmin work for our start-up (and a fair job, I might add), but I'm far more of a hustler. I like people; a lot. I'm a connector. I fit the "makes friends easily" mold, and I leverage it to good effect. But here, I think, is the key to my modest success. I have a tremendous amount of respect for creator talent. I think the fact that I've actually tried the creator's craft has a lot to do with it. I can read most high-level languages (Ruby, Python, PHP, Javascript), and having written some libraries of my own, I can look at something and know that it is elegant; or that it isn't. When I find someone with talent, I let them know that I recognize it, and not by patronizing them. I let them know by listening when they talk, and recognizing that when it comes to engineering, I can ask questions, but I should respect their views and give them the ultimate say in technical matters. From a hustler perspective, I can tell you that I rarely get the reciprocal effort from creators. I know that's painting with a broad brush, but that's my experience. As frequently as hustlers marginalize creators, creators rarely recognize that hustlers are the ones with the most customer facing contact. I agree that the customer doesn't always ask the right questions, but I can't tell you how many times I've sat down with a creator and been stone-walled on requests that seem perfectly legitimate to me and the customer, but creators find deplorable. I end up selling to creators as much as I do to customers. That can be really frustrating to feel like someone doesn't have your back. A large part of the respect I have for Steve Jobs stems from two things: * He was able to motivate creators in a way that few people could * He was able to get the world to pay attention to creators' achievements Steve Jobs could not have become what he was without Steve Wozniak, but the converse is also true. Steve Wozniak may have never created a "personal computer" if Jobs hadn't asked him to. The world may not have paid attention if he had created it without Steve Jobs to hustle the idea. We can't know. Neither of these two men deserve to be marginalized. The same is true of every talented creator and hustler out there. They're all deserving of the hero title.

bad_user 15y ago
If you aren't able to do the work yourself, then you'll never gain the respect of your coworkers/employees. Bill Gates was a pretty good software developer. And you're not Steve Jobs.
- bradleyland 15y ago
  I may not gain your respect, but how can you speak for my coworkers and employees? Also, how is the fact that I'm not Steve Jobs relevant? Do you feel that I need to be taken down a notch? It's ok if you do. I'm asking because your reply is terse, so I'm not sure how to take it.
  - bad_user 15y ago
    I'm not trying to diminish you or your argument, which was in fact quite a good read. You said that it is very annoying having to sell ideas to both customers and your creators. Well, that's a given because creators are quite stubborn people. But creators listen to other capable creators, for which they have enough respect to just trust without much questioning. You will always struggle to get creators to do what you want, unless you are a creator yourself that can get shit done. For software engineering, it does not matter that you're brilliant in so many other ways if you are not capable of doing the job yourself (and you mentioned that you can code a little, but I don't think that's enough). Look for example at Linus Tolvards (since he was on the author's list). He said so himself that he doesn't do much coding these days and his main talent is to get other people to work for him. But he can start stuff like nobody else, his knowledge is unparalleled and when he talks people listen. About Steve Jobs, it is relevant because he's kind of a role model. But Steve Jobs is also a product of the right circumstances. You cannot be like Steve Jobs without having Wozniak as your best friend (this works both ways, Wozniak also benefited greatly from his friendship with Steve Jobs).
    - bradleyland 15y ago
      Thanks for expanding on your comments. I suspect you're right. I work with a lot of other people in the hustler camp, none of which can write any code at all, and I find it much, much easier to get things done (with my team). When you can sit down with a creator and talk their language -- and understand their challenges -- it's a lot easier to relate to them. As a hustler, you have to know when to advocate for your creator. Nothing brings a creator in to the fold better than having their back in a client/project group meeting.

bad_user 15y ago

If you aren't able to do the work yourself, then you'll never gain the respect of your coworkers/employees. Bill Gates was a pretty good software developer. And you're not Steve Jobs.

bradleyland 15y ago
I may not gain your respect, but how can you speak for my coworkers and employees? Also, how is the fact that I'm not Steve Jobs relevant? Do you feel that I need to be taken down a notch? It's ok if you do. I'm asking because your reply is terse, so I'm not sure how to take it.
- bad_user 15y ago
  I'm not trying to diminish you or your argument, which was in fact quite a good read. You said that it is very annoying having to sell ideas to both customers and your creators. Well, that's a given because creators are quite stubborn people. But creators listen to other capable creators, for which they have enough respect to just trust without much questioning. You will always struggle to get creators to do what you want, unless you are a creator yourself that can get shit done. For software engineering, it does not matter that you're brilliant in so many other ways if you are not capable of doing the job yourself (and you mentioned that you can code a little, but I don't think that's enough). Look for example at Linus Tolvards (since he was on the author's list). He said so himself that he doesn't do much coding these days and his main talent is to get other people to work for him. But he can start stuff like nobody else, his knowledge is unparalleled and when he talks people listen. About Steve Jobs, it is relevant because he's kind of a role model. But Steve Jobs is also a product of the right circumstances. You cannot be like Steve Jobs without having Wozniak as your best friend (this works both ways, Wozniak also benefited greatly from his friendship with Steve Jobs).
  - bradleyland 15y ago
    Thanks for expanding on your comments. I suspect you're right. I work with a lot of other people in the hustler camp, none of which can write any code at all, and I find it much, much easier to get things done (with my team). When you can sit down with a creator and talk their language -- and understand their challenges -- it's a lot easier to relate to them. As a hustler, you have to know when to advocate for your creator. Nothing brings a creator in to the fold better than having their back in a client/project group meeting.