6 ms·

Yeah not like this. I will turn myself into a black hole as much as possible. If they somehow ever come to suspect me of these things I will gladly do anything

by krono 4y ago

Yeah not like this. I will turn myself into a black hole as much as possible. If they somehow ever come to suspect me of these things I will gladly do anything I can to support their investigations. They can come by with a warrant, look through my message history specifically and only for evidence related to their investigation, it will happen in my presence, and no copies of my data will be made and/or fed into the basilisk. You know, how it would normally go. What in the world are they thinking over there.

sharken 4y ago
- stef25 4y ago
  > full control in the name of COVID Apart from closing bars and restaurants etc what sort of full control did the EU impose?
  - cvak 4y ago
    nothing, it was in countries jurisdiction, actually people were calling for more central response from EU, but they didn't have any means/rights. Only thing EU did afaik, was EU covid certificates, which I'm eternally grateful for.
    - baisq 4y ago
      Grateful why? They served to restrict our rights.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        Because EU recogniced certifcates made travel within the EU possible and, besides some funny rules for border crossings, almost pain free. Just imagine going from Geany to France would require to get your German vaccination certificate recognised by the French first, as one example.
        VancouverMan 4y ago
        When one set of government-imposed policies artificially inhibits travel, another set of government-imposed policies that artificially adds exceptions to that first set of policies shouldn't be seen as providing salvation. "Travel within the EU" would have been "possible" and "pain free" if the various governments had just not imposed any travel restrictions in the first place.
        cvak 4y ago
        Yeah exactly! But at least like this, you just have one certificate, and not 5.
        ls15 4y ago
        > Just imagine going from Geany to France would require to get your German vaccination certificate recognised by the French first, as one example. Just imagine going from A to B without having to show a useless certificate.
        hef19898 4y ago
        I am old enough to remember passport controls when going skiing in Austria, which was 30 km away from my home. Hell, imagine to show documentation at nation borders! The audacity!
  - avianlyric 4y ago
    Even then it was national governments, not the EU, imposing those controls. I’m not aware of any COVID measures that was bought in solely via powers the EU has. I assume that would take far too long, as every new directive from the EU needs to implemented by each member state separately.
  - uniqueuid 4y ago
    Even closing of bars and restaurands was not imposed by the EU because it does not have the legal powers required to do that. Please read up on competences of institutions before directing blame, everyone. The EU has exclusive power in customs, openness of the internal market, monetary policy, internal commercial policy and some selected international treaties. Member states are furthermore prevented from interfering from EU regulation - if it exists - in some areas of agriculture, environment and consumer protection, transport and energy and meta directives in legal fairness and security. There is no competency for regulating health, that is solely member state responsibility. Regulation of digital markets needs to attach to these powers, and so is derived mostly from a need to protect competition and internal markets.
- puszczyk 4y ago
  Most (all?) restrictions where imposed by the governments. Can you give us more details or some example on that “total control” the European Commission actually exercised.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    And the national government excuse usually is, that they do it according to EU rules, directive or whatever. Denying responsibility at all levels at its finest. There are rare examples of resistance, like the attempt of Czech government to resist the EU firearms directive by putting the right to self-defense with a gun into the constitution. But mostly they just fold over.
    - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
      There was no such thing from the EU; travel restrictions were imposed by individual countries first and foremost. You call it "fold over", but if you think of a positive thing, it's cooperation. Because we have open borders - which, if you look at Brexit, is a huge advantage for trade and the like - it doesn't make sense to allow firearms in one country but ban them in another. It's a give and take situation. The UK decided they didn't want any part in it and... it decimated their economy, their imports and exports, their properties owned abroad, and any companies operating under an .eu domain name; it's caused an economic shift in Ireland which may very well be on the way to unification now, and it may trigger Scotland to leave the Commonwealth and join the EU.
      - vetinari 4y ago
        UK was never in Schengen; as an EU citizen, I had to go through ID check all the time. The only difference now is that I have to show passport, national ID is not enough anymore. Guns were never allowed to circulate freely; even in Schengen countries, you need both export and import permit from both countries to bring it into another country. Fun when you attend competitive events ;). You could argue that you could do it lawlessly, without permit, but then, you could own gun lawlessly, without permit too; the criminals won't bother, only the lawful citizens, who is targeted by the regulation, will. It would be "cooperation", if there was a consent of the governed. Now it is just diktat. This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lHVcvJdWIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lHVcvJdWIs is not so funny when you realize, how true it is.
- oxff 4y ago
op00to 4y ago
Unfortunately, here's what will really happen: 5:30am, loud knock at the door. You open the door a crack to see who it is. Cops bust in. You're immediately handcuffed and sat outside. Cops take anything with a screen, usb plug, etc. All your media. All your computers. All your external hard drives. Every one of these devices will be imaged, and archived prior to being searched. The data will be kept for years, to protect against inevitable appeals, etc. But you know, good luck with your plan.
- chinathrow 4y ago
  At this point, everything encrypted at rest will be a must.
  - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
    And even then, weaknesses are built into encryption, long-term it may be broken with advances in computing (I mean who knows what the NSA and co are working on at the moment), etc. It's better to not do or have anything illegal. Make it so you can say "I have nothing to hide", but don't give them access voluntarily because of that.
    - wongarsu 4y ago
      If NSA has a backdoor or has broken the encryption you are using, they will want to keep that secret for as long as possible to get the greatest possible use out of it. They will use it covertly (using parallel construction to keep it out of court cases) on important cases like (actual) national security, mafia or people running dark net marketplaces, spying on friendly and hostile governments etc. But they won't risk it for someone with a CSAM match or anything similarly uninteresting, and local authorities won't even be aware that it's something their government can do. Still, don't do anything illegal, but I think for most people it's legitimate to have a threat profile that assumes that encryption is effective.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    Then encryption becomes evidence of guilt, unless you give up the key so they can search it to make sure you're not guilty.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
No, that's not how you should be thinking. You say nothing, you give no access, and you demand a lawyer and a search warrant. You do not need to cooperate. You cannot trust any police or investigators. This isn't about whether you are guilty of anything or not, this is about basic human rights, the right to privacy, and due process of law.
- krono 4y ago
  > due process of law That is exactly what I want. Not having committed any such crimes, and having been incredibly lucky to be born into the sort of life where I feel like I can trust the process being fair and just, I am not particularly worried about an investigation. This is the precise inverse of how I feel about the general permanent monitor and analysis that is now being proposed. These systems are inaccurate, opaque, and uncontrollable. It makes me feel like cattle being driven towards the man with the rod.

by krono 4y ago

sharken 4y ago

stef25 4y ago
> full control in the name of COVID Apart from closing bars and restaurants etc what sort of full control did the EU impose?
- cvak 4y ago
  nothing, it was in countries jurisdiction, actually people were calling for more central response from EU, but they didn't have any means/rights. Only thing EU did afaik, was EU covid certificates, which I'm eternally grateful for.
  - baisq 4y ago
    Grateful why? They served to restrict our rights.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Because EU recogniced certifcates made travel within the EU possible and, besides some funny rules for border crossings, almost pain free. Just imagine going from Geany to France would require to get your German vaccination certificate recognised by the French first, as one example.
      - VancouverMan 4y ago
        When one set of government-imposed policies artificially inhibits travel, another set of government-imposed policies that artificially adds exceptions to that first set of policies shouldn't be seen as providing salvation. "Travel within the EU" would have been "possible" and "pain free" if the various governments had just not imposed any travel restrictions in the first place.
        cvak 4y ago
        Yeah exactly! But at least like this, you just have one certificate, and not 5.
      - ls15 4y ago
        > Just imagine going from Geany to France would require to get your German vaccination certificate recognised by the French first, as one example. Just imagine going from A to B without having to show a useless certificate.
        hef19898 4y ago
        I am old enough to remember passport controls when going skiing in Austria, which was 30 km away from my home. Hell, imagine to show documentation at nation borders! The audacity!
- avianlyric 4y ago
  Even then it was national governments, not the EU, imposing those controls. I’m not aware of any COVID measures that was bought in solely via powers the EU has. I assume that would take far too long, as every new directive from the EU needs to implemented by each member state separately.
- uniqueuid 4y ago
  Even closing of bars and restaurands was not imposed by the EU because it does not have the legal powers required to do that. Please read up on competences of institutions before directing blame, everyone. The EU has exclusive power in customs, openness of the internal market, monetary policy, internal commercial policy and some selected international treaties. Member states are furthermore prevented from interfering from EU regulation - if it exists - in some areas of agriculture, environment and consumer protection, transport and energy and meta directives in legal fairness and security. There is no competency for regulating health, that is solely member state responsibility. Regulation of digital markets needs to attach to these powers, and so is derived mostly from a need to protect competition and internal markets.
puszczyk 4y ago
Most (all?) restrictions where imposed by the governments. Can you give us more details or some example on that “total control” the European Commission actually exercised.
- vetinari 4y ago
  And the national government excuse usually is, that they do it according to EU rules, directive or whatever. Denying responsibility at all levels at its finest. There are rare examples of resistance, like the attempt of Czech government to resist the EU firearms directive by putting the right to self-defense with a gun into the constitution. But mostly they just fold over.
  - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
    There was no such thing from the EU; travel restrictions were imposed by individual countries first and foremost. You call it "fold over", but if you think of a positive thing, it's cooperation. Because we have open borders - which, if you look at Brexit, is a huge advantage for trade and the like - it doesn't make sense to allow firearms in one country but ban them in another. It's a give and take situation. The UK decided they didn't want any part in it and... it decimated their economy, their imports and exports, their properties owned abroad, and any companies operating under an .eu domain name; it's caused an economic shift in Ireland which may very well be on the way to unification now, and it may trigger Scotland to leave the Commonwealth and join the EU.
    - vetinari 4y ago
      UK was never in Schengen; as an EU citizen, I had to go through ID check all the time. The only difference now is that I have to show passport, national ID is not enough anymore. Guns were never allowed to circulate freely; even in Schengen countries, you need both export and import permit from both countries to bring it into another country. Fun when you attend competitive events ;). You could argue that you could do it lawlessly, without permit, but then, you could own gun lawlessly, without permit too; the criminals won't bother, only the lawful citizens, who is targeted by the regulation, will. It would be "cooperation", if there was a consent of the governed. Now it is just diktat. This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lHVcvJdWIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lHVcvJdWIs is not so funny when you realize, how true it is.
oxff 4y ago

op00to 4y ago

Unfortunately, here's what will really happen: 5:30am, loud knock at the door. You open the door a crack to see who it is. Cops bust in. You're immediately handcuffed and sat outside. Cops take anything with a screen, usb plug, etc. All your media. All your computers. All your external hard drives. Every one of these devices will be imaged, and archived prior to being searched. The data will be kept for years, to protect against inevitable appeals, etc. But you know, good luck with your plan.

chinathrow 4y ago
At this point, everything encrypted at rest will be a must.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  And even then, weaknesses are built into encryption, long-term it may be broken with advances in computing (I mean who knows what the NSA and co are working on at the moment), etc. It's better to not do or have anything illegal. Make it so you can say "I have nothing to hide", but don't give them access voluntarily because of that.
  - wongarsu 4y ago
    If NSA has a backdoor or has broken the encryption you are using, they will want to keep that secret for as long as possible to get the greatest possible use out of it. They will use it covertly (using parallel construction to keep it out of court cases) on important cases like (actual) national security, mafia or people running dark net marketplaces, spying on friendly and hostile governments etc. But they won't risk it for someone with a CSAM match or anything similarly uninteresting, and local authorities won't even be aware that it's something their government can do. Still, don't do anything illegal, but I think for most people it's legitimate to have a threat profile that assumes that encryption is effective.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  Then encryption becomes evidence of guilt, unless you give up the key so they can search it to make sure you're not guilty.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

No, that's not how you should be thinking. You say nothing, you give no access, and you demand a lawyer and a search warrant. You do not need to cooperate. You cannot trust any police or investigators. This isn't about whether you are guilty of anything or not, this is about basic human rights, the right to privacy, and due process of law.

krono 4y ago
> due process of law That is exactly what I want. Not having committed any such crimes, and having been incredibly lucky to be born into the sort of life where I feel like I can trust the process being fair and just, I am not particularly worried about an investigation. This is the precise inverse of how I feel about the general permanent monitor and analysis that is now being proposed. These systems are inaccurate, opaque, and uncontrollable. It makes me feel like cattle being driven towards the man with the rod.