12 ms·

The American dream is to make it through hard work, what you are referring to is simple greed and laziness and it’s been around since humanity attained consciou

by raiyu 4y ago

The American dream is to make it through hard work, what you are referring to is simple greed and laziness and it’s been around since humanity attained consciousness.

sbarre 4y ago
> The American dream is to make it through hard work Now that's the actual con, or at least a pipe dream. Hard work is never enough. Luck plays a huge factor but few who get lucky, and then rich, will ever admit to that part.
- fifticon 4y ago
  It's a minor detail: "through the hard work of OTHERS".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bitexploder 4y ago
  I admit it. Many of my peers do. Luck is fickle and hard quantify. Effort and decision making less so. It is at least obvious why people have such a bias.
  - sbarre 4y ago
    Of course, saying "I got lucky" is not the story most successful people want to tell themselves.. I am not implying it is all luck, but there is never no luck involved in success.
- marcusverus 4y ago
  > Now that's the actual con, or at least a pipe dream. Hard work is never enough. This seems like a bad faith, intentional misunderstanding of the concept of hard work. You're right, mindless hard work (with no proactive consideration for your own life trajectory) is not enough to "make it". If you take the first minimum wage job you find and you work hard at that job for 40 years, you're not going to make it. That doesn't invalidate the American Dream. The American Dream isn't "if you work hard, the American Dream fairy will appear and present you with a house, a car and a white picket fence", it's "if you work hard at making it, you can quite easily make it". This presupposes that a given worker will take responsibility for their ability to earn, and be willing to course correct if they are not on a good path toward "making it". > Luck plays a huge factor but few who get lucky, and then rich, will ever admit to that part. Nonsense. The goal of the American Dream was never to be Jeff Bezos. It was to live a comfortable life. In that sense, the American Dream is being realized by the vast majority of Americans every day. The median income of a middle-class household in this country is 78K,[0] which puts them in the ~94th percentile in global income.[1] [0]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/the-american-middle-class-is-stable-in-size-but-losing-ground-financially-to-upper-income-families/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/the-america... [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/global-income-calculator/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/global...
  - heisenbit 4y ago
    The Pew Research article you are quoting show a considerably shrinking middle class over the past decades with a stagnating income: „Median income of the middle class in 2016 is about the same as in 2000“.
micromacrofoot 4y ago
is that really the dream? I always thought it was just having a normal job, work 9-5 and come home to house/car/family
- mrep 4y ago
  From wikipedia [0]: "The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (democracy, rights, liberty, opportunity and equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, as well as an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few barriers." [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    I suppose I'm wondering if the definition of "hard work" has shifted. In the '50s and '60s was "hard work" like 60 hour weeks and "hustle economy" type of stuff? or was it just "doing a good job" 40 hours a week?
    - danaris 4y ago
      I think to some extent it's always depended on who you talked to, but "hustle culture" as we know it today definitely wasn't part of the ideal of the American Dream at any point before the '90s, at the very earliest.
    - UncleEntity 4y ago
      I’d say it was more “an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay”.
- LightG 4y ago
  Back in the 50's maybe! Now everyone are just 'temporarily impoverished billionaires', which is why the whole scam continues to hold itself up.
  - 4y ago
jmyeet 4y ago
This is propaganda based on a mix of the Protestant work ethic and stoicism in an effort to keep the populace compliant and malleable. This is why political parties are constantly in the business of creating wedge issues to distract people so they don't figure out their lot in life is determined by their material conditions.
- salawat 4y ago
  Which is itself propaganda from other religious sects of note who got so fast and loose with doctrine they allowed salvation to become pay-to-win (indulgences), and corruption to become so endemic, even members of the faith started nailing protests to doors, or schisming due to overreach by the theocratic edifice. If uou're going to make a historical argument, please follow through.
- caladin 4y ago
  Two back-to-back on-point comments. I appreciate you!

by raiyu 4y ago

The American dream is to make it through hard work, what you are referring to is simple greed and laziness and it’s been around since humanity attained consciousness.

sbarre 4y ago

> The American dream is to make it through hard work Now that's the actual con, or at least a pipe dream. Hard work is never enough. Luck plays a huge factor but few who get lucky, and then rich, will ever admit to that part.

fifticon 4y ago
It's a minor detail: "through the hard work of OTHERS".
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bitexploder 4y ago
I admit it. Many of my peers do. Luck is fickle and hard quantify. Effort and decision making less so. It is at least obvious why people have such a bias.
- sbarre 4y ago
  Of course, saying "I got lucky" is not the story most successful people want to tell themselves.. I am not implying it is all luck, but there is never no luck involved in success.
marcusverus 4y ago
> Now that's the actual con, or at least a pipe dream. Hard work is never enough. This seems like a bad faith, intentional misunderstanding of the concept of hard work. You're right, mindless hard work (with no proactive consideration for your own life trajectory) is not enough to "make it". If you take the first minimum wage job you find and you work hard at that job for 40 years, you're not going to make it. That doesn't invalidate the American Dream. The American Dream isn't "if you work hard, the American Dream fairy will appear and present you with a house, a car and a white picket fence", it's "if you work hard at making it, you can quite easily make it". This presupposes that a given worker will take responsibility for their ability to earn, and be willing to course correct if they are not on a good path toward "making it". > Luck plays a huge factor but few who get lucky, and then rich, will ever admit to that part. Nonsense. The goal of the American Dream was never to be Jeff Bezos. It was to live a comfortable life. In that sense, the American Dream is being realized by the vast majority of Americans every day. The median income of a middle-class household in this country is 78K,[0] which puts them in the ~94th percentile in global income.[1] [0]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/the-american-middle-class-is-stable-in-size-but-losing-ground-financially-to-upper-income-families/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/the-america... [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/global-income-calculator/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/global...
- heisenbit 4y ago
  The Pew Research article you are quoting show a considerably shrinking middle class over the past decades with a stagnating income: „Median income of the middle class in 2016 is about the same as in 2000“.

micromacrofoot 4y ago

is that really the dream? I always thought it was just having a normal job, work 9-5 and come home to house/car/family

mrep 4y ago
From wikipedia [0]: "The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (democracy, rights, liberty, opportunity and equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, as well as an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few barriers." [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  I suppose I'm wondering if the definition of "hard work" has shifted. In the '50s and '60s was "hard work" like 60 hour weeks and "hustle economy" type of stuff? or was it just "doing a good job" 40 hours a week?
  - danaris 4y ago
    I think to some extent it's always depended on who you talked to, but "hustle culture" as we know it today definitely wasn't part of the ideal of the American Dream at any point before the '90s, at the very earliest.
  - UncleEntity 4y ago
    I’d say it was more “an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay”.
LightG 4y ago
Back in the 50's maybe! Now everyone are just 'temporarily impoverished billionaires', which is why the whole scam continues to hold itself up.
- 4y ago

jmyeet 4y ago

This is propaganda based on a mix of the Protestant work ethic and stoicism in an effort to keep the populace compliant and malleable. This is why political parties are constantly in the business of creating wedge issues to distract people so they don't figure out their lot in life is determined by their material conditions.

salawat 4y ago
Which is itself propaganda from other religious sects of note who got so fast and loose with doctrine they allowed salvation to become pay-to-win (indulgences), and corruption to become so endemic, even members of the faith started nailing protests to doors, or schisming due to overreach by the theocratic edifice. If uou're going to make a historical argument, please follow through.
caladin 4y ago
Two back-to-back on-point comments. I appreciate you!