5 ms·

this keeps getting proposed every few months and it keeps getting rejected

jdrek1 4y ago
The problem is they only need to win once. What we really need is an immutable section in the EU constitution that anyone who tries to take away basic privacy rights like this is immediately tried for crimes against humanity and sent to prison for the rest of their lives.
- HL33tibCe7 4y ago
  > The problem is they only need to win once. This is a classic EU tactic
- raverbashing 4y ago
  No, they don't need to "win once", rules can be changed. And the ECJ/ECHR are a thing (and yes they have ruled against overreaching rules in the past) (though I like your suggestion)
- blibble 4y ago
  > The problem is they only need to win once. and due to the structure of the EU: once it is has passed it is almost impossible to rescind no matter who you vote for in the future
  - varispeed 4y ago
    You can't even vote out people who keep bringing it in in the first place.
- zaroth 4y ago
  Conversely, perhaps protection against this kind of dragnet can be enshrined in Constitutions / Bills of Rights / UN Charters to defend against these attacks more fundamentally.
- gpderetta 4y ago
  Privacy rights are in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, which is indirectly part of the Treaty of Lisbon, the closest thing to an EU constitution. The CJEU has stuck down laws affecting privacy multiple times. There is always wiggle room of course, and vigilance has to be eternal.
  - tluyben2 4y ago
    They just change it slightly every time until it passes. But it won’t be very potent in the end; I cannot imagine blanket encryption backdoors etc will be voted in. But if it does I am gone, out of principle. As tech person I cannot stand the stupidity of this all. I hope I am dead before I run out of countries to go to.
- AlgorithmicTime 4y ago
pantalaimon 4y ago
This has been going on for 15 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugangserschwerungsgesetz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugangserschwerungsgesetz
- AlbertoGP 4y ago
  >> this keeps getting proposed every few months and it keeps getting rejected > This has been going on for 15 years I paste here the comment I wrote a few hours ago in the thread “European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31344817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31344817 Indeed, in the words of the previous President of the European Commission: “We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.” https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker#1999 https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker#1999 The current President of the European Commission has been a long time advocate for Internet control: “However, in the digital community, her posturing for the EU’s top job has caused concern. In 2000 [sic, actually 2009], when Von Der Leyen was Families minister, she advocated for the mandatory blocking of child pornography online via a list of offending websites managed by police authorities. Germany’s Pirate Party claimed that the law would lead to censorship of the internet.” “The outcry that resulted was dubbed the ‘Zensursula’ scandal, blending the German word for censorship (“Zensur”) and her name (“Ursula”). The move was eventually repealed after it being challenged broadly, including a petition that had garnered tens of thousands of signatures.” https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/digital-brief-von-der-leyens-censorship-worries/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/digital-brief-...
tluyben2 4y ago
Keep voting, per country, for the right people and capable digital people on the gov; the pendulum can swing the other way giving people the right to strong encryption. I like dreaming. Any country where that is a right by the way? So where an org like the nsa cannot exist with backdoors by law?

The problem is they only need to win once. What we really need is an immutable section in the EU constitution that anyone who tries to take away basic privacy rights like this is immediately tried for crimes against humanity and sent to prison for the rest of their lives.

HL33tibCe7 4y ago
> The problem is they only need to win once. This is a classic EU tactic
raverbashing 4y ago
No, they don't need to "win once", rules can be changed. And the ECJ/ECHR are a thing (and yes they have ruled against overreaching rules in the past) (though I like your suggestion)
blibble 4y ago
> The problem is they only need to win once. and due to the structure of the EU: once it is has passed it is almost impossible to rescind no matter who you vote for in the future
- varispeed 4y ago
  You can't even vote out people who keep bringing it in in the first place.
zaroth 4y ago
Conversely, perhaps protection against this kind of dragnet can be enshrined in Constitutions / Bills of Rights / UN Charters to defend against these attacks more fundamentally.
gpderetta 4y ago
Privacy rights are in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, which is indirectly part of the Treaty of Lisbon, the closest thing to an EU constitution. The CJEU has stuck down laws affecting privacy multiple times. There is always wiggle room of course, and vigilance has to be eternal.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  They just change it slightly every time until it passes. But it won’t be very potent in the end; I cannot imagine blanket encryption backdoors etc will be voted in. But if it does I am gone, out of principle. As tech person I cannot stand the stupidity of this all. I hope I am dead before I run out of countries to go to.
AlgorithmicTime 4y ago

pantalaimon 4y ago

This has been going on for 15 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugangserschwerungsgesetz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugangserschwerungsgesetz

AlbertoGP 4y ago
>> this keeps getting proposed every few months and it keeps getting rejected > This has been going on for 15 years I paste here the comment I wrote a few hours ago in the thread “European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31344817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31344817 Indeed, in the words of the previous President of the European Commission: “We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.” https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker#1999 https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker#1999 The current President of the European Commission has been a long time advocate for Internet control: “However, in the digital community, her posturing for the EU’s top job has caused concern. In 2000 [sic, actually 2009], when Von Der Leyen was Families minister, she advocated for the mandatory blocking of child pornography online via a list of offending websites managed by police authorities. Germany’s Pirate Party claimed that the law would lead to censorship of the internet.” “The outcry that resulted was dubbed the ‘Zensursula’ scandal, blending the German word for censorship (“Zensur”) and her name (“Ursula”). The move was eventually repealed after it being challenged broadly, including a petition that had garnered tens of thousands of signatures.” https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/digital-brief-von-der-leyens-censorship-worries/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/digital-brief-...

tluyben2 4y ago

Keep voting, per country, for the right people and capable digital people on the gov; the pendulum can swing the other way giving people the right to strong encryption. I like dreaming. Any country where that is a right by the way? So where an org like the nsa cannot exist with backdoors by law?