4 ms·

I looked for sources for the last and 'illiberal' quotes. Can you provide them?

vitus 4y ago
Re: illiberalism: https://budapestbeacon.com/full-text-of-viktor-orbans-speech-at-baile-tusnad-tusnadfurdo-of-26-july-2014/ https://budapestbeacon.com/full-text-of-viktor-orbans-speech... "in this sense, the new state that we are building is an illiberal state, a non-liberal state. It does not deny foundational values of liberalism, as freedom, etc.. But it does not make this ideology a central element of state organization, but applies a specific, national, particular approach in its stead." https://miniszterelnok.hu/prime-minister-viktor-orbans-speech-at-the-29th-balvanyos-summer-open-university-and-student-camp/ https://miniszterelnok.hu/prime-minister-viktor-orbans-speec... "Let us confidently declare that Christian democracy is not liberal. Liberal democracy is liberal, while Christian democracy is, by definition, not liberal: it is, if you like, illiberal." (Orban then stands that up on three pillars: prioritizing Christian culture, being anti-immigration, and the Christian family model.) (There are almost assuredly more speeches.)
- bfrog 4y ago
  Sounds like Hungary doesn’t want Islamic culture coming in and rioting
  - pmoriarty 4y ago
    From HN's guidelines[1]: "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity." "Eschew flamebait." [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- skissane 4y ago
  Question: when Orban says “liberal” or “illiberal”, what does he actually mean by those terms? Worth keeping in mind that Americans and Europeans (especially Continentals/non-Anglophones) may have rather different definitions of “liberal”: “American conservatism, with its Lockean roots, is—from a Continental point of view—not really conservatism, but rather, old-school liberalism.” [0] Similarly: what’s the difference between a “neoconservative” and a “neoliberal”? The terms have a lot of overlap, many people could be equally described by both: but if a neoconservative can also be a neoliberal, then what’s the difference between “conservative” and “liberal”? And then I remember that I come from a country whose main “conservative” party is called the “Liberal Party of Australia” (or just “the Liberals” for short). Many of its members and leaders will defend the apparent contradiction by saying “We are conservatives, but we are also classical liberals”-a line I’ve also heard from right-of-centre Americans. See also “conservative liberalism” [1] - which of course is obviously a very different thing from “liberal conservatism” [2] Tis all as clear as mud [0] https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commentary/the-big-government-cultural-conservatism-of-central-europe/ https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commentary/the-big... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - blibble 4y ago
    liberal in the US sense seems to mean left whereas in Europe it means anti-authoritarian
mihaaly 4y ago
For the last one I only have Hungarian references, sorry about that: https://hvg.hu/itthon/20110906_orban_wikileaks_ne_figyeljenek https://hvg.hu/itthon/20110906_orban_wikileaks_ne_figyeljene... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3nfpuOoHdI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3nfpuOoHdI Anyway, the point is that he is unrealiable, unpredictable, misleading. Apart from the above obvious ones there are countless further examples when he pretended, lied, mislead, did not do what he told will do. It would take very long time to compile a fairly comprehensive list from throughout the years, these are just rapid and random selections. He is basically communicate and act similar to Putin.

Re: illiberalism: https://budapestbeacon.com/full-text-of-viktor-orbans-speech-at-baile-tusnad-tusnadfurdo-of-26-july-2014/ https://budapestbeacon.com/full-text-of-viktor-orbans-speech... "in this sense, the new state that we are building is an illiberal state, a non-liberal state. It does not deny foundational values of liberalism, as freedom, etc.. But it does not make this ideology a central element of state organization, but applies a specific, national, particular approach in its stead." https://miniszterelnok.hu/prime-minister-viktor-orbans-speech-at-the-29th-balvanyos-summer-open-university-and-student-camp/ https://miniszterelnok.hu/prime-minister-viktor-orbans-speec... "Let us confidently declare that Christian democracy is not liberal. Liberal democracy is liberal, while Christian democracy is, by definition, not liberal: it is, if you like, illiberal." (Orban then stands that up on three pillars: prioritizing Christian culture, being anti-immigration, and the Christian family model.) (There are almost assuredly more speeches.)

bfrog 4y ago
Sounds like Hungary doesn’t want Islamic culture coming in and rioting
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  From HN's guidelines[1]: "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity." "Eschew flamebait." [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
skissane 4y ago
Question: when Orban says “liberal” or “illiberal”, what does he actually mean by those terms? Worth keeping in mind that Americans and Europeans (especially Continentals/non-Anglophones) may have rather different definitions of “liberal”: “American conservatism, with its Lockean roots, is—from a Continental point of view—not really conservatism, but rather, old-school liberalism.” [0] Similarly: what’s the difference between a “neoconservative” and a “neoliberal”? The terms have a lot of overlap, many people could be equally described by both: but if a neoconservative can also be a neoliberal, then what’s the difference between “conservative” and “liberal”? And then I remember that I come from a country whose main “conservative” party is called the “Liberal Party of Australia” (or just “the Liberals” for short). Many of its members and leaders will defend the apparent contradiction by saying “We are conservatives, but we are also classical liberals”-a line I’ve also heard from right-of-centre Americans. See also “conservative liberalism” [1] - which of course is obviously a very different thing from “liberal conservatism” [2] Tis all as clear as mud [0] https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commentary/the-big-government-cultural-conservatism-of-central-europe/ https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commentary/the-big... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- blibble 4y ago
  liberal in the US sense seems to mean left whereas in Europe it means anti-authoritarian

mihaaly 4y ago

For the last one I only have Hungarian references, sorry about that: https://hvg.hu/itthon/20110906_orban_wikileaks_ne_figyeljenek https://hvg.hu/itthon/20110906_orban_wikileaks_ne_figyeljene... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3nfpuOoHdI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3nfpuOoHdI Anyway, the point is that he is unrealiable, unpredictable, misleading. Apart from the above obvious ones there are countless further examples when he pretended, lied, mislead, did not do what he told will do. It would take very long time to compile a fairly comprehensive list from throughout the years, these are just rapid and random selections. He is basically communicate and act similar to Putin.