7 ms·

NATO "expanded" when sovereign, democratic countries CHOSE to apply for NATO-membership, completely voluntarily, because they beleive it was and is the best det

NATO "expanded" when sovereign, democratic countries CHOSE to apply for NATO-membership, completely voluntarily, because they beleive it was and is the best deterrent for Russia to invade them. A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. Always leaving a trail of warcrimes, poverty, rapes, murdered and tortured civilians etc. None of these countries were NATO members. No wonder Eastern Europe were eager to join NATO. NATO is not perfect, neither are the member countries, but compared to Russia, it is pretty much sparkles and rainbows. (edit: typos)

aa-jv 4y ago
>completely volutarily The CIA has entered the chat. >A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. I assure you, the West has invaded - and left in utter ruin - far more sovereign democratic nations than Russia has. It was only able to do that due to NATO support, from which bases many crimes against humanity and war crimes have been committed. The Russians know this about NATO, even if Americans don't.
- stoltzmann 4y ago
  Do you have a single fact to back up your accusation of CIA meddling with NATO membership? The truth is, that countries want to join NATO so that Russia does not invade them. That's the sole reason.
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    Thats the propaganda/PR reason, readily parroted throughout a mainstream media that is literally owned by the people selling bombs to NATO. You might want to start your journey of enlightenment here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in_NATO_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in...
    - stoltzmann 4y ago
      Do you have a single fact to back up your accusation of CIA meddling with NATO membership? Your link does not prove that. Also, you have not provided any sources on the dismissal of reasons for joining NATO. Please do link to them if you have any evidence. As is, it looks like you're parroting anti-NATO propaganda - it seems you're acting in bad faith. Are you paid for by the Russians?
      - aa-jv 4y ago
        The existence of GLADIO is all the evidence one needs. Its purpose is to ensure any and all impediments to the expansion of NATO are removed. The "Ma' Russians!" claim is not worth responding to, but I'm an Australian, have lived for decades in the US and in Eastern Europe, and I no longer play the nationalist game. I've been following the Wests' war crimes and crimes against humanity since 9/11, which has led me to the conclusion that yes indeed, we are the bad guys for starting World War 3 in 2003 with the illegal invasion of Iraq. Nice try though.
        stoltzmann 4y ago
        That does not prove your accusation that CIA was meddling in countries that willingly asked to join NATO because they did not want to get invaded by Russia. Also, you're mischaracterizing the purpose of Operation Gladio.
        aa-jv 4y ago
        Gladio is literally an organization whose purpose is to ensure the targeted states join NATO or, at least, remain aligned with NATO intentions. States join NATO in order to participate in NATO's war crimes and crimes against humanity, and to be a part of the refactoring of the sovereign states of the world that NATO is engaged in. It is literally the #1 usurper of sovereign democracy.
        stoltzmann 4y ago
- adwn 4y ago
  > The CIA has entered the chat. Please leave lazy, youtube-comments-style memes out of HN.
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    The CIA does not leave any room for voluntary decisions to join NATO. It actively engages in repressive counter-measures against any politician that calls for NATO war crimes to be investigated. It has a long, sordid history of defeating sovereign democracies that do not toe the NATO line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in_NATO_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in...
    - klausjensen 4y ago
      When it looks like Finland and Sweden are going to join NATO soon, you say it is because of CIA manipulation? I assume you do not recognize the polls in for example Finland, which indicates ~22% support for joining NATO before the Russian invasion of Ukraine - to ~75% now (only 12% against)? This is all CIA manipulation?
- klausjensen 4y ago
  Deflection. Neighbours of Russia want to join NATO to prevent Russia invading them. And for good reason. No "mysterious" CIA-manipulation needed.
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    - klausjensen 4y ago
      Again, you are just deflecting, trying to distract from the core: The neighbours of Russia do not want to be invaded by Russia, so they join NATO.
      - aa-jv 4y ago
        It could as easily be stated that nations join NATO in order to participate in NATO's war crimes, and share its war treasures. For the same reason that immigrants come to USA - because that's not where the bombs are falling. Both statements are valid, and have just as much evidence supporting them.
        klausjensen 4y ago
        ...So now the Finns are joining NATO to participate in NATO war-crimes? I did once have to sit through a Finn slaughtering a karaoke version of "Sweet Caroline", but I would hardly consider it a war-crime.
        aa-jv 4y ago
        Do you deny that NATO is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity on states its member-politicians have 'declared inferior'? Finland is just as capable of xenophobia as any other NATO member.
        CRConrad 4y ago
- simion314 4y ago
  >The CIA has entered the chat. If you are not a Ruzzian troll go to a subrredit for n eastern country and ask the people there what they think about NATO and Russia, like go to r/romania . I assure you we don't need CIA propaganda to understand the danger Russia was and is for our freedom and unfortunetly for our brothers in Moldova that got screwed hard and might get cewed more in future but the Russians. Though I can understand if you have no idea about the history in Easter Europe and only follow the conflicts where US and their friends get involved you might have a big bias.
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    I live in Eastern Europe, its why I have a balanced view of the situation. There are as many states in this region who want to ally against NATO because of its war crimes and crimes against humanity - however I wager those states are not on your radar since you clearly live inside the media bubble created for you by the literal makers of bombs to be dropped by NATO forces in future wars.
    - cycomanic 4y ago
      Ok be specific which states?
    - mcv 4y ago
      Well, why haven't they? Any country is free to form their own alliances. Living in eastern Europe does not guarantee a balanced view of the situation, though. Russia is a very large part of eastern Europe, and balanced views of the situation will get you thrown in prison.
      - aa-jv 4y ago
        Never heard of the CIS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_St...
        mcv 4y ago

aa-jv 4y ago

>completely volutarily The CIA has entered the chat. >A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. I assure you, the West has invaded - and left in utter ruin - far more sovereign democratic nations than Russia has. It was only able to do that due to NATO support, from which bases many crimes against humanity and war crimes have been committed. The Russians know this about NATO, even if Americans don't.

stoltzmann 4y ago
Do you have a single fact to back up your accusation of CIA meddling with NATO membership? The truth is, that countries want to join NATO so that Russia does not invade them. That's the sole reason.
- aa-jv 4y ago
  Thats the propaganda/PR reason, readily parroted throughout a mainstream media that is literally owned by the people selling bombs to NATO. You might want to start your journey of enlightenment here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in_NATO_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in...
  - stoltzmann 4y ago
    Do you have a single fact to back up your accusation of CIA meddling with NATO membership? Your link does not prove that. Also, you have not provided any sources on the dismissal of reasons for joining NATO. Please do link to them if you have any evidence. As is, it looks like you're parroting anti-NATO propaganda - it seems you're acting in bad faith. Are you paid for by the Russians?
    - aa-jv 4y ago
      The existence of GLADIO is all the evidence one needs. Its purpose is to ensure any and all impediments to the expansion of NATO are removed. The "Ma' Russians!" claim is not worth responding to, but I'm an Australian, have lived for decades in the US and in Eastern Europe, and I no longer play the nationalist game. I've been following the Wests' war crimes and crimes against humanity since 9/11, which has led me to the conclusion that yes indeed, we are the bad guys for starting World War 3 in 2003 with the illegal invasion of Iraq. Nice try though.
      - stoltzmann 4y ago
        That does not prove your accusation that CIA was meddling in countries that willingly asked to join NATO because they did not want to get invaded by Russia. Also, you're mischaracterizing the purpose of Operation Gladio.
        aa-jv 4y ago
        Gladio is literally an organization whose purpose is to ensure the targeted states join NATO or, at least, remain aligned with NATO intentions. States join NATO in order to participate in NATO's war crimes and crimes against humanity, and to be a part of the refactoring of the sovereign states of the world that NATO is engaged in. It is literally the #1 usurper of sovereign democracy.
        stoltzmann 4y ago
adwn 4y ago
> The CIA has entered the chat. Please leave lazy, youtube-comments-style memes out of HN.
- aa-jv 4y ago
  The CIA does not leave any room for voluntary decisions to join NATO. It actively engages in repressive counter-measures against any politician that calls for NATO war crimes to be investigated. It has a long, sordid history of defeating sovereign democracies that do not toe the NATO line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in_NATO_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in...
  - klausjensen 4y ago
    When it looks like Finland and Sweden are going to join NATO soon, you say it is because of CIA manipulation? I assume you do not recognize the polls in for example Finland, which indicates ~22% support for joining NATO before the Russian invasion of Ukraine - to ~75% now (only 12% against)? This is all CIA manipulation?
klausjensen 4y ago
Deflection. Neighbours of Russia want to join NATO to prevent Russia invading them. And for good reason. No "mysterious" CIA-manipulation needed.
- aa-jv 4y ago
  - klausjensen 4y ago
    Again, you are just deflecting, trying to distract from the core: The neighbours of Russia do not want to be invaded by Russia, so they join NATO.
    - aa-jv 4y ago
      It could as easily be stated that nations join NATO in order to participate in NATO's war crimes, and share its war treasures. For the same reason that immigrants come to USA - because that's not where the bombs are falling. Both statements are valid, and have just as much evidence supporting them.
      - klausjensen 4y ago
        ...So now the Finns are joining NATO to participate in NATO war-crimes? I did once have to sit through a Finn slaughtering a karaoke version of "Sweet Caroline", but I would hardly consider it a war-crime.
        aa-jv 4y ago
        Do you deny that NATO is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity on states its member-politicians have 'declared inferior'? Finland is just as capable of xenophobia as any other NATO member.
        CRConrad 4y ago
simion314 4y ago
>The CIA has entered the chat. If you are not a Ruzzian troll go to a subrredit for n eastern country and ask the people there what they think about NATO and Russia, like go to r/romania . I assure you we don't need CIA propaganda to understand the danger Russia was and is for our freedom and unfortunetly for our brothers in Moldova that got screwed hard and might get cewed more in future but the Russians. Though I can understand if you have no idea about the history in Easter Europe and only follow the conflicts where US and their friends get involved you might have a big bias.
- aa-jv 4y ago
  I live in Eastern Europe, its why I have a balanced view of the situation. There are as many states in this region who want to ally against NATO because of its war crimes and crimes against humanity - however I wager those states are not on your radar since you clearly live inside the media bubble created for you by the literal makers of bombs to be dropped by NATO forces in future wars.
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    Ok be specific which states?
  - mcv 4y ago
    Well, why haven't they? Any country is free to form their own alliances. Living in eastern Europe does not guarantee a balanced view of the situation, though. Russia is a very large part of eastern Europe, and balanced views of the situation will get you thrown in prison.
    - aa-jv 4y ago
      Never heard of the CIS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_St...
      - mcv 4y ago