17 ms·

So even if NATO completely surrounded Russia, do you think any of said war crimes would actually be committed against Russia directly because if so I want whate

by mrep 4y ago

So even if NATO completely surrounded Russia, do you think any of said war crimes would actually be committed against Russia directly because if so I want whatever you're smoking. They have 6000 nukes and US + EU combined have 25 times the GDP of Russia. We have everything to lose and practically nothing to gain from attacking Russias worthless economy.

aa-jv 4y ago
Yes, I do believe that NATO is a war-crime committing, human-rights abusing entity that is bringing much death and destruction and turmoil to the world for the sake of special interests - political and commercial - who stand to gain billions in profit from every single NATO base built. But, I've been paying attention to NATO's war crimes over the last two decades, as well as the immensely evil crimes against humanity committed by the Wests' 5-eyes nations in their disgusting wars. Why haven't you?
- gwd 4y ago
  You know what would be really helpful here? Links to sources to know what the heck you're talking about. Preferably Wikipedia pages or something like that. And no, "do your own research" is not a valid answer.
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    - gwd 4y ago
      Providing evidence and arguments to support your claims is not "spoonfed bootlicking". Your claim was: "NATO is a war-crime committing, human-rights abusing entity." The first seems to be a link collecting data points for civilian casualties. I don't see any NATO actions on there; and in any case it's missing the further evidence that war crimes and human rights abuse occurred. The second page, on the front page anyway, has nothing about NATO whatsoever as far as I could tell.
      - aa-jv 4y ago
        Airwars tracks civilian casualties of war. These casualties - war crimes and crimes against humanity - are committed by NATO members and aligned states almost every single day. NATO bases are used to launch the attacks. NATO resources are used to cover up the crimes. Clearly, you're not asking for this information in good faith, or else you'd have discerned this already, even with a casual look at the Airwars reports, which details quite descriptively the nature of NATO involvement in war crimes and crimes against humanity. As far as your glib understanding of Wikileaks, I suggest you really, really study the material.
        CRConrad 4y ago
        > are committed by NATO members and aligned states That's not the same as committed by NATO.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  You didn't answer the previous posters question. I actually am well aware of the crimes committed by NATO members (I would argue that they were not under NATO mandate though, except maybe Serbia, but that's a different argument). BTW the most atrocious crimes go back way more than 20 years. I also know that many western nations have been very nonchalant about violations of international law by their own allies, and I seriously hope that one of the outcomes of this crisis is that the Europeans in particular realize that to be believable you can't close your eyes just because it's your "friends". All the above is true, but that doesn't change the fact that the motivation of the former eastern block countries is driven by a deep skepticism/fear of Russia and their politics of invading and repressing their neighbors. There is a reason why the Baltic states and Poland are the largest supporters of Ukraine, there is very strong opposition towards the Russian state, despite all countries having large Russian minorities. Also with the (certainly justified) complaints about the "aggressive west", lets not act like Russia is some sort of innocent victim instead of being wannabe imperialists that are worse by pretty much any standard (and China is a completely different discussion).
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    >You didn't answer the previous posters question. I, in fact, answered it. YES, I believe NATO will commit further war crimes and continued crimes against humanity in its lust to demolish Russia. It has a long history of doing so already and shows no signs that it will stop its criminal behaviours in the near future.
    - cycomanic 4y ago
      You said: >Yes, I do believe that NATO is a war-crime committing, human-rights abusing entity that is bringing much death and destruction and turmoil to the world for the sake of special interests - political and commercial - who stand to gain billions in profit from every single NATO base built. >But, I've been paying attention to NATO's war crimes over the last two decades, as well as the immensely evil crimes against humanity committed by the Wests' 5-eyes nations in their disgusting wars. Why haven't you? So no you did not answer the question. Now I have a question for you, how did NATO force Russia to invade Ukraine, considering it is somehow part of their plan of "continued crimes against humanity in its lust to demolish Russia". Second question, do you think what Russia is doing in Ukraine are crimes against humanity? If not why?
- mrep 4y ago
  > who stand to gain billions in profit from every single NATO base built Broken window fallacy [0]. That money spent on bases is a cost we'd rather not spend because it could be spent on other things or just saved with reduced taxes giving us citizens more of our money back. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    The fact is, billions and billions in profits have been made by every single NATO base built, and it has not stopped a single damn war. In fact, NATO bases have been used to commit one heinous atrocity after the other for the last 30 years.
    - mrep 4y ago
      I don't think you understand what profit means.
      - aa-jv 4y ago
        I sure know what it means to Lockheed Martin (LMT), Northrop Grumman (NOG) and Raytheon (RTN). So do many, many others - thankfully: https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/the-soaring-profits-of-the-military-industrial-complex-and-casualties https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/the-soaring-prof...
        mrep 4y ago
        All paid for by taxpayers so overall a net cost which is what matters to the average citizen.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  Nobody asked about your opinion of NATO, answer the question.
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    Yes, NATO-aligned states do currently commit war crimes and crimes against humanity at heinous scale - with seeming impunity - and there is nothing to indicate this would change in their battle against Russia. Sanctions - factually, crimes against humanity since they collectively punish an entire nation - are already evidence of the intentions of the West in dealing with Russia: to see its destruction.
    - CRConrad 4y ago
      > NATO-aligned states Notice the constant careful weasel-wording.

by mrep 4y ago

aa-jv 4y ago

Yes, I do believe that NATO is a war-crime committing, human-rights abusing entity that is bringing much death and destruction and turmoil to the world for the sake of special interests - political and commercial - who stand to gain billions in profit from every single NATO base built. But, I've been paying attention to NATO's war crimes over the last two decades, as well as the immensely evil crimes against humanity committed by the Wests' 5-eyes nations in their disgusting wars. Why haven't you?

gwd 4y ago
You know what would be really helpful here? Links to sources to know what the heck you're talking about. Preferably Wikipedia pages or something like that. And no, "do your own research" is not a valid answer.
- aa-jv 4y ago
  - gwd 4y ago
    Providing evidence and arguments to support your claims is not "spoonfed bootlicking". Your claim was: "NATO is a war-crime committing, human-rights abusing entity." The first seems to be a link collecting data points for civilian casualties. I don't see any NATO actions on there; and in any case it's missing the further evidence that war crimes and human rights abuse occurred. The second page, on the front page anyway, has nothing about NATO whatsoever as far as I could tell.
    - aa-jv 4y ago
      Airwars tracks civilian casualties of war. These casualties - war crimes and crimes against humanity - are committed by NATO members and aligned states almost every single day. NATO bases are used to launch the attacks. NATO resources are used to cover up the crimes. Clearly, you're not asking for this information in good faith, or else you'd have discerned this already, even with a casual look at the Airwars reports, which details quite descriptively the nature of NATO involvement in war crimes and crimes against humanity. As far as your glib understanding of Wikileaks, I suggest you really, really study the material.
      - CRConrad 4y ago
        > are committed by NATO members and aligned states That's not the same as committed by NATO.
cycomanic 4y ago
You didn't answer the previous posters question. I actually am well aware of the crimes committed by NATO members (I would argue that they were not under NATO mandate though, except maybe Serbia, but that's a different argument). BTW the most atrocious crimes go back way more than 20 years. I also know that many western nations have been very nonchalant about violations of international law by their own allies, and I seriously hope that one of the outcomes of this crisis is that the Europeans in particular realize that to be believable you can't close your eyes just because it's your "friends". All the above is true, but that doesn't change the fact that the motivation of the former eastern block countries is driven by a deep skepticism/fear of Russia and their politics of invading and repressing their neighbors. There is a reason why the Baltic states and Poland are the largest supporters of Ukraine, there is very strong opposition towards the Russian state, despite all countries having large Russian minorities. Also with the (certainly justified) complaints about the "aggressive west", lets not act like Russia is some sort of innocent victim instead of being wannabe imperialists that are worse by pretty much any standard (and China is a completely different discussion).
- aa-jv 4y ago
  >You didn't answer the previous posters question. I, in fact, answered it. YES, I believe NATO will commit further war crimes and continued crimes against humanity in its lust to demolish Russia. It has a long history of doing so already and shows no signs that it will stop its criminal behaviours in the near future.
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    You said: >Yes, I do believe that NATO is a war-crime committing, human-rights abusing entity that is bringing much death and destruction and turmoil to the world for the sake of special interests - political and commercial - who stand to gain billions in profit from every single NATO base built. >But, I've been paying attention to NATO's war crimes over the last two decades, as well as the immensely evil crimes against humanity committed by the Wests' 5-eyes nations in their disgusting wars. Why haven't you? So no you did not answer the question. Now I have a question for you, how did NATO force Russia to invade Ukraine, considering it is somehow part of their plan of "continued crimes against humanity in its lust to demolish Russia". Second question, do you think what Russia is doing in Ukraine are crimes against humanity? If not why?
mrep 4y ago
> who stand to gain billions in profit from every single NATO base built Broken window fallacy [0]. That money spent on bases is a cost we'd rather not spend because it could be spent on other things or just saved with reduced taxes giving us citizens more of our money back. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
- aa-jv 4y ago
  The fact is, billions and billions in profits have been made by every single NATO base built, and it has not stopped a single damn war. In fact, NATO bases have been used to commit one heinous atrocity after the other for the last 30 years.
  - mrep 4y ago
    I don't think you understand what profit means.
    - aa-jv 4y ago
      I sure know what it means to Lockheed Martin (LMT), Northrop Grumman (NOG) and Raytheon (RTN). So do many, many others - thankfully: https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/the-soaring-profits-of-the-military-industrial-complex-and-casualties https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/the-soaring-prof...
      - mrep 4y ago
        All paid for by taxpayers so overall a net cost which is what matters to the average citizen.
wiseowise 4y ago
Nobody asked about your opinion of NATO, answer the question.
- aa-jv 4y ago
  Yes, NATO-aligned states do currently commit war crimes and crimes against humanity at heinous scale - with seeming impunity - and there is nothing to indicate this would change in their battle against Russia. Sanctions - factually, crimes against humanity since they collectively punish an entire nation - are already evidence of the intentions of the West in dealing with Russia: to see its destruction.
  - CRConrad 4y ago
    > NATO-aligned states Notice the constant careful weasel-wording.