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Russia has been threatening Finland/Sweden with consequences for years. As the Finnish PM mentioned in his speech with Boris Johnson a few days ago, Russia has

by tremon 5y ago

Russia has been threatening Finland/Sweden with consequences for years. As the Finnish PM mentioned in his speech with Boris Johnson a few days ago, Russia has shown with Ukraine that complying with Russia's threats is not a guarantee that the future will be consequence-free.

jgrahamc 5y ago
As the Finnish PM mentioned in his speech I am pretty sure Sanna Marin is a woman.
- ginko 5y ago
  I think GP was talking about the Finnish president's speech, actually. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhLNBxpo8zY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhLNBxpo8zY
- tremon 5y ago
  Oh, then the speech I saw wasn't by the PM.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Prez, probably. Sale is a guy.
brabel 5y ago
> Russia has shown with Ukraine that complying with Russia's threats is not a guarantee that the future will be consequence-free. When did Ukraine actually comply with any threat from Russia since at least the Maidan Revolution??
- agent008t 5y ago
  Crimea was effectively allowed to be annexed by Russia.
- mint2 5y ago
  Well in the run up to the Russian invasion Ukraine wasn’t provoking Russia, and Russia officials continually denied it had plans to invade until oh wait they’d had plans for a super long time. I’m not sure about Ukraine complying with Russia orders, but they weren’t really antagonizing them other than by existing and not being completely subservient like Belarus. So yeah after top Russian officials spent so much time lying about the plans and showing they had no sincere intention to negotiate, it’s no wonder Finland and Sweden have decided not to trust Russia.
  - brabel 5y ago
    Your version of what happened seems extremely incomplete to me. Ukraine was basically fighting a war against Russia for 8 years already [1]... and that war started when the Russia-friendly government was removed by revolution (the demoted president fled to Russia after that) after which a very anti-Russian government was immediately instated with the whole objective of joining NATO and the EU, to Russia's dismay... Not that just because of that Russia had the right to do what it was doing... but let's not forget everything that actually lead to the hostilities like you're simply doing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
    - AuthorizedCust 5y ago
      What is your point? Defending your country against an invading force and self determination of a republic are not provocations.
      - brabel 5y ago
        This is your opinion... if you believe everyone should agree with you on that, then yes, seeking membership on a military alliance whose aim is to keep your country at bay is not a provocation. But can you maybe consider that Putin and most Russians do not share your opinion? Would an American consider that Canada joining a Chinese-led military alliance to defend its members against USA's increased aggression (in Canadian's and Chinese opinions) count as a provocation to America? Well, to Americans it most certainly would... even if the Chinese disagreed completely with them... this is my point. It's easy to believe our opinion is the only one that counts and fuck anyone who doesn't share it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mcv 5y ago
If somebody tells you: "I'm going to beat you up if you ask for help", you should probably ask for help. It's not an effective kind of threat, because he's probably going to beat you up at some point anyway.
- nevermindiguess 4y ago
  Actually no! You should probably notask for help because it has a non zero probability that you will not be beat up, whereas if you do it has an almost certain probability that you will since you have just been warned.
  - mcv 4y ago
    You should get help when there's an opportunity to do so, so he won't be able to beat you up anymore. Surrendering to bullies is never a good idea.
gnulinux 5y ago
> Russia has shown with Ukraine that complying with Russia's threats is not a guarantee that the future will be consequence-free. Exactly this. By attacking Ukraine, Russia proved to the world that there is no point complying with Russian geopolitical demands. If Ukraine somehow became a NATO member years ago (not saying that that would have happened, but talking hypothetically) Ukraine would never have been attacked. So, the only rational thing for Finland and Sweden to do is to ignore Russia and join NATO.

by tremon 5y ago

jgrahamc 5y ago

As the Finnish PM mentioned in his speech I am pretty sure Sanna Marin is a woman.

ginko 5y ago
I think GP was talking about the Finnish president's speech, actually. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhLNBxpo8zY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhLNBxpo8zY
tremon 5y ago
Oh, then the speech I saw wasn't by the PM.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Prez, probably. Sale is a guy.

brabel 5y ago

> Russia has shown with Ukraine that complying with Russia's threats is not a guarantee that the future will be consequence-free. When did Ukraine actually comply with any threat from Russia since at least the Maidan Revolution??

agent008t 5y ago
Crimea was effectively allowed to be annexed by Russia.
mint2 5y ago
Well in the run up to the Russian invasion Ukraine wasn’t provoking Russia, and Russia officials continually denied it had plans to invade until oh wait they’d had plans for a super long time. I’m not sure about Ukraine complying with Russia orders, but they weren’t really antagonizing them other than by existing and not being completely subservient like Belarus. So yeah after top Russian officials spent so much time lying about the plans and showing they had no sincere intention to negotiate, it’s no wonder Finland and Sweden have decided not to trust Russia.
- brabel 5y ago
  Your version of what happened seems extremely incomplete to me. Ukraine was basically fighting a war against Russia for 8 years already [1]... and that war started when the Russia-friendly government was removed by revolution (the demoted president fled to Russia after that) after which a very anti-Russian government was immediately instated with the whole objective of joining NATO and the EU, to Russia's dismay... Not that just because of that Russia had the right to do what it was doing... but let's not forget everything that actually lead to the hostilities like you're simply doing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
  - AuthorizedCust 5y ago
    What is your point? Defending your country against an invading force and self determination of a republic are not provocations.
    - brabel 5y ago
      This is your opinion... if you believe everyone should agree with you on that, then yes, seeking membership on a military alliance whose aim is to keep your country at bay is not a provocation. But can you maybe consider that Putin and most Russians do not share your opinion? Would an American consider that Canada joining a Chinese-led military alliance to defend its members against USA's increased aggression (in Canadian's and Chinese opinions) count as a provocation to America? Well, to Americans it most certainly would... even if the Chinese disagreed completely with them... this is my point. It's easy to believe our opinion is the only one that counts and fuck anyone who doesn't share it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mcv 5y ago

If somebody tells you: "I'm going to beat you up if you ask for help", you should probably ask for help. It's not an effective kind of threat, because he's probably going to beat you up at some point anyway.

nevermindiguess 4y ago
Actually no! You should probably notask for help because it has a non zero probability that you will not be beat up, whereas if you do it has an almost certain probability that you will since you have just been warned.
- mcv 4y ago
  You should get help when there's an opportunity to do so, so he won't be able to beat you up anymore. Surrendering to bullies is never a good idea.

gnulinux 5y ago

> Russia has shown with Ukraine that complying with Russia's threats is not a guarantee that the future will be consequence-free. Exactly this. By attacking Ukraine, Russia proved to the world that there is no point complying with Russian geopolitical demands. If Ukraine somehow became a NATO member years ago (not saying that that would have happened, but talking hypothetically) Ukraine would never have been attacked. So, the only rational thing for Finland and Sweden to do is to ignore Russia and join NATO.