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> Most Russians don't seem to want to invade other countries. What are you basing this on? https://www.levada.ru/en/ratings/ https://www.levada.ru/en/ratings/

> Most Russians don't seem to want to invade other countries. What are you basing this on? https://www.levada.ru/en/ratings/ https://www.levada.ru/en/ratings/ This seems to show strong support for the Russian government and this analysis seems to suggest that few Russians are concerned about Russians crimes and as many as half are very supportive of horrific violence against people they see as nonhuman. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14623528.2022.2074020 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14623528.2022.2...

Oreols 5y ago
Those are polls in a fascist state. People will say what they think they need to say to stay safe. But you're not wrong, lots of people just went full nazi
- sph 5y ago
  Can we please learn the difference between fascism, nationalism and nazism? Putin nor his supporters haven't gone full nazi. Full fascist, perhaps. Nationalist, definitely. He used the "denazify Ukraine" slogan when Zelenskyy is actually Jewish not because of deep seated racial or religious motivations, but just to get more of the populace to buy his belligerent cause. Putin just cares about Crimea, Sevastopol, and the strategic importance of the Black Sea (oil and military).
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    What is the difference between the Nazis and Putin's Russia today? A fascist State organized around one man organizing the genocide of an ethnicity to further his geopolitical aims and restore his nation to a position of prominence and prestige in world affairs who destroys not only others but his own people as well. He's just using Ukrainians instead of Jewish folks seems more like an implimentation detail. Even hating them is completely optional. People aren't just using Nazi as a purjorative the regime literally fits a template.
    - watwut 4y ago
      Glad you asked. Nazis ideology was based on strong genetic/biological definition of race. It was all about who your grand-parents were. It believed in struggle for survival for races and whole pyramid of races. Aryans on top (not whites), Jews as main enemies/bottom and dangerous, Slavic people low on hierarchy but not dangerous. It also believed Germans need more "living space" as Germany is too small. The place to colonize was East. They also believed in "survival of fittest" and competition. That influenced the way they build institutions and how they treated sick etc. They liked to have two institutions with same goal and have them compete. Russia is different in all three points. It does not care much about own disabled, but they are not seen as threat the way Germans seen disabled. Russian parents with sick kid dont have to be afraid to go to see doctor for example. > He's just using Ukrainians instead of Jewish folks seems more like an implementation detail. Even hating them is completely optional. Both ideologies are very very different in how they treat subjects, actually. For instance, Ukrainians became subject of genocide after they refused Russia domination - Jews had no such option. Russians claim Ukrainians are Russia by blood and deserve punishment for considering themselves apart. Meanwhile, many many German Jews considered themselves Germans. That is underappreciated point - but a lot of them were German patriots, veterans of WWI, married ethnical Germans and were atheists. Edited to add: Russia is also significantly less totalitarian them Germany was back then. It is autocracy/dictatorship, but it is not nearly as oppressive internally as Nazi Germany was. Timing is different too, its move toward complete lock of press happened only after invasion of Ukraine - contrast with German who did that long before military moves.
somenameforme 5y ago
When looking at things like this you always need to consider a rally around the flag effect. When a country is threatened by outsiders, it tends to result in a dramatic increase in support for government and its leaders. After 9/11, Bush's approval rating hit 90%, the highest ever recorded for any US president. And it stayed inflated (though not to such insane highs) for years, including through at least the start of our invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq. Russians now feel as though they're under attack by the West with an ends of destroying them not only economically and politically but also culturally. That is going to send support soaring with the perceived threat there is orders of magnitude greater than something like Bin Laden. So you're not going to be able to get level-headed responses until [likely many] years after this ends - similar to how if you polled the average American circa 2001 you'd get dramatically different views on the actions we took than you would if you asked them a decade later, even beyond the countless discoveries outside the "fog of war". This is one reason I also think our ongoing response is not the right path forward for any outcome other than escalation. The more we arbitrarily attack anything "Russian", the more we frame ourselves not as an enemy of the war but as an enemy of the Russian people and even the Russian culture. And far from achieving a de-escalation, this just seems it will inevitably march us that much closer to WW3.
- watwut 5y ago
  Even sociologists/antropologist who put emphasis on "rally around the flag effect" claim that support for war in Russia is actually high right now. And that hate toward Ukrainians is high too. Your explanation completely disregards the distate and hate toward Ukraine/Ukrainians that was hyped up for years.

Oreols 5y ago

Those are polls in a fascist state. People will say what they think they need to say to stay safe. But you're not wrong, lots of people just went full nazi

sph 5y ago
Can we please learn the difference between fascism, nationalism and nazism? Putin nor his supporters haven't gone full nazi. Full fascist, perhaps. Nationalist, definitely. He used the "denazify Ukraine" slogan when Zelenskyy is actually Jewish not because of deep seated racial or religious motivations, but just to get more of the populace to buy his belligerent cause. Putin just cares about Crimea, Sevastopol, and the strategic importance of the Black Sea (oil and military).
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  What is the difference between the Nazis and Putin's Russia today? A fascist State organized around one man organizing the genocide of an ethnicity to further his geopolitical aims and restore his nation to a position of prominence and prestige in world affairs who destroys not only others but his own people as well. He's just using Ukrainians instead of Jewish folks seems more like an implimentation detail. Even hating them is completely optional. People aren't just using Nazi as a purjorative the regime literally fits a template.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Glad you asked. Nazis ideology was based on strong genetic/biological definition of race. It was all about who your grand-parents were. It believed in struggle for survival for races and whole pyramid of races. Aryans on top (not whites), Jews as main enemies/bottom and dangerous, Slavic people low on hierarchy but not dangerous. It also believed Germans need more "living space" as Germany is too small. The place to colonize was East. They also believed in "survival of fittest" and competition. That influenced the way they build institutions and how they treated sick etc. They liked to have two institutions with same goal and have them compete. Russia is different in all three points. It does not care much about own disabled, but they are not seen as threat the way Germans seen disabled. Russian parents with sick kid dont have to be afraid to go to see doctor for example. > He's just using Ukrainians instead of Jewish folks seems more like an implementation detail. Even hating them is completely optional. Both ideologies are very very different in how they treat subjects, actually. For instance, Ukrainians became subject of genocide after they refused Russia domination - Jews had no such option. Russians claim Ukrainians are Russia by blood and deserve punishment for considering themselves apart. Meanwhile, many many German Jews considered themselves Germans. That is underappreciated point - but a lot of them were German patriots, veterans of WWI, married ethnical Germans and were atheists. Edited to add: Russia is also significantly less totalitarian them Germany was back then. It is autocracy/dictatorship, but it is not nearly as oppressive internally as Nazi Germany was. Timing is different too, its move toward complete lock of press happened only after invasion of Ukraine - contrast with German who did that long before military moves.

somenameforme 5y ago

When looking at things like this you always need to consider a rally around the flag effect. When a country is threatened by outsiders, it tends to result in a dramatic increase in support for government and its leaders. After 9/11, Bush's approval rating hit 90%, the highest ever recorded for any US president. And it stayed inflated (though not to such insane highs) for years, including through at least the start of our invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq. Russians now feel as though they're under attack by the West with an ends of destroying them not only economically and politically but also culturally. That is going to send support soaring with the perceived threat there is orders of magnitude greater than something like Bin Laden. So you're not going to be able to get level-headed responses until [likely many] years after this ends - similar to how if you polled the average American circa 2001 you'd get dramatically different views on the actions we took than you would if you asked them a decade later, even beyond the countless discoveries outside the "fog of war". This is one reason I also think our ongoing response is not the right path forward for any outcome other than escalation. The more we arbitrarily attack anything "Russian", the more we frame ourselves not as an enemy of the war but as an enemy of the Russian people and even the Russian culture. And far from achieving a de-escalation, this just seems it will inevitably march us that much closer to WW3.

watwut 5y ago
Even sociologists/antropologist who put emphasis on "rally around the flag effect" claim that support for war in Russia is actually high right now. And that hate toward Ukrainians is high too. Your explanation completely disregards the distate and hate toward Ukraine/Ukrainians that was hyped up for years.