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I've always believed that this was the science behind acupuncture. You're deliberately reminding the body of old scar tissue and blocked lymphs that the body h

I've always believed that this was the science behind acupuncture. You're deliberately reminding the body of old scar tissue and blocked lymphs that the body has forgotten about. This causes localized inflammation and the bodies own response to go back in and clear out tissue or built up crap. I haven't heard anyone else describe it that way but it makes sense to me. Wonder if this would be better than applying repetitive stress injuries to an existing problem.

mordechai9000 4y ago
Modern, Western physical therapists are using something similar to acupuncture called dry needling. They did it for my wife's torn rotator cuff. They said it causes the muscle to return to a normal state, after it's been trying to compensate for the injury. Or at least that's the understanding she got from their explanation. Since they are still trying to treat the injury, I'm not sure causing the muscle to reset would be helpful.
- gonzo41 4y ago
  The main difference is that in the western use of needles they don't really follow paths on the body, you just work over an area to create the spasms that result in a knot loosening etc.
  - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
    But like acupuncture, there isn't proof for dry needling working better than a placebo. Studies that are there are, well, bad and looks to be on-par with a placebo. Which means that you get risks without medical benefit. Might as well get a massage, which won't involve someone putting needles in your skin.
- blenderdt 4y ago
  As far as I know dry needling causes the muscles to contract. This squeezes the acids out of the muscles causing a better blood flow afterwards. So as far as I know this is almost the same as a massage but more localized. But as with a massage, if the cause of the knot in the muscle it not taken away the effect will only be temporarily (couple of days maybe).
dataangel 4y ago
There's loads of studies of acupuncture though showing no benefit.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  You are way simplifying the studies. From what I understand: + We are pretty sure acupuncture, done correctly, won't cause any harm + It is on par or sometimes slightly exceeds placebo + Sometimes "things that seem like acupuncture but are not acupuncture" also give the same kind of results.. even though they shouldn't? I'd still be pretty skeptical about it, but the risk of trying it seems quite low
  - light_hue_1 4y ago
    No. These junk "remedies" like acupuncture absolutely have risks. You can get infections from acupuncture. Your acupuncture "provider" could easily infect you with bloodborne diseases. People have even been documented to have died from acupuncture https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951167/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951167/ The benefits are zero. Potentially living with a chronic disease like Hepatitis C because of a lazy provider that reuses a needle or contaminates it in some way, is a serious risk. There's also the fact that by engaging in these activities you perpetuate junk science, just like Q anon people, just like climate change deniers, it's all the same insanity.
    - KptMarchewa 4y ago
      Agreed. On top of that, opportunity cost is a thing. If you pursue completely ineffective therapy - and spend time figuring out if your local acupuncture parlor uses dirty needles - you waste time and energy that would be spend pursuing worthwhile treatment.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      Let me try again, maybe with more caps. > We are pretty sure acupuncture, DONE CORRECTLY, won't cause any harm Yes, if you get stabbed with a dirty needle, you might get a disease. That's true for acupuncture, a tattoo shop, and even a vaccine. Don't get stabbed with dirty needles! I fully suggest not getting stabbed with dirty needles. Bad. Avoid. 0/10. > The benefits are zero https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3982837/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3982837/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5984198/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5984198/ It's probably about as effective as placebo? (Maybe?) That isn't zero, that's placebo - and that is an important difference > you perpetuate junk science, You're just wrong. This isn't even just a "you might have a different opinion". The absolute best science we have, the entirety of realms of research, is "well, it's probably placebo and maybe it's kind of an expensive placebo". The most scientific answer you can give is "we should do more studies and ask more questions", and it's part of why the medical industry has shifted from "Don't do acupuncture" to "Well, it probably won't do much for you, but sure if you like it, that seems fine".

mordechai9000 4y ago

Modern, Western physical therapists are using something similar to acupuncture called dry needling. They did it for my wife's torn rotator cuff. They said it causes the muscle to return to a normal state, after it's been trying to compensate for the injury. Or at least that's the understanding she got from their explanation. Since they are still trying to treat the injury, I'm not sure causing the muscle to reset would be helpful.

gonzo41 4y ago
The main difference is that in the western use of needles they don't really follow paths on the body, you just work over an area to create the spasms that result in a knot loosening etc.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  But like acupuncture, there isn't proof for dry needling working better than a placebo. Studies that are there are, well, bad and looks to be on-par with a placebo. Which means that you get risks without medical benefit. Might as well get a massage, which won't involve someone putting needles in your skin.
blenderdt 4y ago
As far as I know dry needling causes the muscles to contract. This squeezes the acids out of the muscles causing a better blood flow afterwards. So as far as I know this is almost the same as a massage but more localized. But as with a massage, if the cause of the knot in the muscle it not taken away the effect will only be temporarily (couple of days maybe).

dataangel 4y ago

There's loads of studies of acupuncture though showing no benefit.

vorpalhex 4y ago
You are way simplifying the studies. From what I understand: + We are pretty sure acupuncture, done correctly, won't cause any harm + It is on par or sometimes slightly exceeds placebo + Sometimes "things that seem like acupuncture but are not acupuncture" also give the same kind of results.. even though they shouldn't? I'd still be pretty skeptical about it, but the risk of trying it seems quite low
- light_hue_1 4y ago
  No. These junk "remedies" like acupuncture absolutely have risks. You can get infections from acupuncture. Your acupuncture "provider" could easily infect you with bloodborne diseases. People have even been documented to have died from acupuncture https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951167/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951167/ The benefits are zero. Potentially living with a chronic disease like Hepatitis C because of a lazy provider that reuses a needle or contaminates it in some way, is a serious risk. There's also the fact that by engaging in these activities you perpetuate junk science, just like Q anon people, just like climate change deniers, it's all the same insanity.
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    Agreed. On top of that, opportunity cost is a thing. If you pursue completely ineffective therapy - and spend time figuring out if your local acupuncture parlor uses dirty needles - you waste time and energy that would be spend pursuing worthwhile treatment.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Let me try again, maybe with more caps. > We are pretty sure acupuncture, DONE CORRECTLY, won't cause any harm Yes, if you get stabbed with a dirty needle, you might get a disease. That's true for acupuncture, a tattoo shop, and even a vaccine. Don't get stabbed with dirty needles! I fully suggest not getting stabbed with dirty needles. Bad. Avoid. 0/10. > The benefits are zero https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3982837/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3982837/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5984198/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5984198/ It's probably about as effective as placebo? (Maybe?) That isn't zero, that's placebo - and that is an important difference > you perpetuate junk science, You're just wrong. This isn't even just a "you might have a different opinion". The absolute best science we have, the entirety of realms of research, is "well, it's probably placebo and maybe it's kind of an expensive placebo". The most scientific answer you can give is "we should do more studies and ask more questions", and it's part of why the medical industry has shifted from "Don't do acupuncture" to "Well, it probably won't do much for you, but sure if you like it, that seems fine".