4 ms·

I could support kids learning boxing if it was limited to body blows. With what we are learning about concussion, it seems to be more and more understood that b

I could support kids learning boxing if it was limited to body blows. With what we are learning about concussion, it seems to be more and more understood that blows to the head are never OK. Maybe you still need to teach defense against head blows, but they should probably not be allowed in competition. Getting battered in the head until you cannot stand up or respond should be right out.

leephillips 4y ago
Although, according to the pamphlet, “Every boy who is worthy of the name has an inclination to know something of the art of boxing.”
- throwawayboise 4y ago
  I saw that too and it made me smile. I think it can still be done. Just cut out the brain damage.
  - leephillips 4y ago
    Totally agree. And some other sports, especially soccer (football outside the US) are also risky for the brain, because practice involves repeated heading.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      I was not allowed allowed to head until I reached high school. I was definitely made fun of for it. Who knows it if made any difference though.
slowhand09 4y ago
Boxing outside of competition is almost always done with head protection gear. And supervision to prevent violence rather than sport.
jvanderbot 4y ago
One of the biggest misconceptions about boxing training is that it involves repeated blows to the head. Boxing _competitions_ may. But boxing _training_ involves form, combos, reflexes and defense drills, and lots of conditioning. The most contact is "touch" drills, where you may touch your glove to someone with no force behind it. These drills are for intermediates to prepare for sparring, and I've never seen someone get hit too hard there. Imagine if karate involved untrained people just kicking eachother hard enough to injure themselves / someone. That seems silly, yet that's what we imagine with boxing.
- throwawayboise 4y ago
  Thanks for clarifying. I don't have experience with boxing myself, but yes I was mostly talking about competition (i.e. fight to knock-out) and it makes sense that training is more about the skills you mention.
amalcon 4y ago
There are martial arts where even in competition, concussion is relatively rare. E.g. grappling sports like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu don't usually involve impacts of that intensity, to the head or otherwise.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  BJJ has another problem -- at least for little kids who are taught to choke. That could lead to death if they try applying the skill they learned in an unsupervised setting.
- bradknowles 4y ago
  Just wait until you get thrown to the ground by a 350lb black belt Judoka. And the Gracie school seems to specialize in choking. Which might be unwise with certain candidates.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  Football has more concussions than boxing, because it has more full speed competition than boxing. Almost nobody does in-the-ring boxing, they just learn. And soccer has the most injuries of any sport, according to an ER doc (who treated me for a football injury).
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Is it possible that it's the most widely played sport (and some of the least protective equipment) so they'll see the most people but it might not be the highest per capita? That said, I know a kid who somehow lacerated his kidney and had to spend time in the ICU. At least two others with concussions.
- aidenn0 4y ago
  Masahiko Kimura was famous for knocking people out with his osoto-gari. Helio Gracie thickened the mats for his match with him to prevent this. By all reports Kimura threw him around the ring before finally switching to ground-work for the win (And after winning with a reverse-keylock, that submission was named after him in BJJ).
mastazi 4y ago
The problem is that out of this concern, some martial arts disallowed head blows in competition, only to fall out of grace due to how "unrealistic" they are in terms of self defence. A large number of people who start practising martial arts, does that out of a self defence concern, maybe they have been bullied at school etc. I don't have a solution to this problem (possibly head gear, but recent studies seem to indicate that it's not effective and might even make things worse)[1]. Of course one possible solution would be to mainly promote grappling-based martial arts, like BJJ or amateur wrestling, but then in a self defence optic you would still need some striking practice, at least in order to learn striking defence. [1] https://www.wired.com/2016/08/olympic-boxers-arent-wearing-headgear-anymore/ https://www.wired.com/2016/08/olympic-boxers-arent-wearing-h...
- mastazi 4y ago
  Replying to myself: in striking arts, one great solution is promoting a culture where light sparring (e.g. Thai style sparring) is preferred to hard sparring (e.g. Dutch style sparring). In most combat sports, competition is not that frequent and more than 99% of the time a practitioner would be doing either technical training or sparring.
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    You've perfectly described every martial arts gym / training session that I've been part of. Touch / light sparring is reserved for intermediates, and reflex / defensive drills are a strong prerequsite, and under no circumstances is anyone allowed to go "full speed". Even in the grimiest of boxing gyms, unless you are explicitly training for a competition, I have never seen this rule violated.

leephillips 4y ago

Although, according to the pamphlet, “Every boy who is worthy of the name has an inclination to know something of the art of boxing.”

throwawayboise 4y ago
I saw that too and it made me smile. I think it can still be done. Just cut out the brain damage.
- leephillips 4y ago
  Totally agree. And some other sports, especially soccer (football outside the US) are also risky for the brain, because practice involves repeated heading.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    I was not allowed allowed to head until I reached high school. I was definitely made fun of for it. Who knows it if made any difference though.

slowhand09 4y ago

Boxing outside of competition is almost always done with head protection gear. And supervision to prevent violence rather than sport.

jvanderbot 4y ago

One of the biggest misconceptions about boxing training is that it involves repeated blows to the head. Boxing _competitions_ may. But boxing _training_ involves form, combos, reflexes and defense drills, and lots of conditioning. The most contact is "touch" drills, where you may touch your glove to someone with no force behind it. These drills are for intermediates to prepare for sparring, and I've never seen someone get hit too hard there. Imagine if karate involved untrained people just kicking eachother hard enough to injure themselves / someone. That seems silly, yet that's what we imagine with boxing.

throwawayboise 4y ago
Thanks for clarifying. I don't have experience with boxing myself, but yes I was mostly talking about competition (i.e. fight to knock-out) and it makes sense that training is more about the skills you mention.

amalcon 4y ago

There are martial arts where even in competition, concussion is relatively rare. E.g. grappling sports like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu don't usually involve impacts of that intensity, to the head or otherwise.

pmoriarty 4y ago
BJJ has another problem -- at least for little kids who are taught to choke. That could lead to death if they try applying the skill they learned in an unsupervised setting.
bradknowles 4y ago
Just wait until you get thrown to the ground by a 350lb black belt Judoka. And the Gracie school seems to specialize in choking. Which might be unwise with certain candidates.
jvanderbot 4y ago
Football has more concussions than boxing, because it has more full speed competition than boxing. Almost nobody does in-the-ring boxing, they just learn. And soccer has the most injuries of any sport, according to an ER doc (who treated me for a football injury).
- giantg2 4y ago
  Is it possible that it's the most widely played sport (and some of the least protective equipment) so they'll see the most people but it might not be the highest per capita? That said, I know a kid who somehow lacerated his kidney and had to spend time in the ICU. At least two others with concussions.
aidenn0 4y ago
Masahiko Kimura was famous for knocking people out with his osoto-gari. Helio Gracie thickened the mats for his match with him to prevent this. By all reports Kimura threw him around the ring before finally switching to ground-work for the win (And after winning with a reverse-keylock, that submission was named after him in BJJ).

mastazi 4y ago

The problem is that out of this concern, some martial arts disallowed head blows in competition, only to fall out of grace due to how "unrealistic" they are in terms of self defence. A large number of people who start practising martial arts, does that out of a self defence concern, maybe they have been bullied at school etc. I don't have a solution to this problem (possibly head gear, but recent studies seem to indicate that it's not effective and might even make things worse)[1]. Of course one possible solution would be to mainly promote grappling-based martial arts, like BJJ or amateur wrestling, but then in a self defence optic you would still need some striking practice, at least in order to learn striking defence. [1] https://www.wired.com/2016/08/olympic-boxers-arent-wearing-headgear-anymore/ https://www.wired.com/2016/08/olympic-boxers-arent-wearing-h...

mastazi 4y ago
Replying to myself: in striking arts, one great solution is promoting a culture where light sparring (e.g. Thai style sparring) is preferred to hard sparring (e.g. Dutch style sparring). In most combat sports, competition is not that frequent and more than 99% of the time a practitioner would be doing either technical training or sparring.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  You've perfectly described every martial arts gym / training session that I've been part of. Touch / light sparring is reserved for intermediates, and reflex / defensive drills are a strong prerequsite, and under no circumstances is anyone allowed to go "full speed". Even in the grimiest of boxing gyms, unless you are explicitly training for a competition, I have never seen this rule violated.