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Just for the record, one can believe in Covid restrictions of 2020 and also believe this CSAM action is absurd and anti-privacy. Equating them is shallow at be

Just for the record, one can believe in Covid restrictions of 2020 and also believe this CSAM action is absurd and anti-privacy. Equating them is shallow at best and misleading at worst.

boredumb 5y ago
One can believe in covid restrictions, but they would be naive if they think there wasn't a huge cost imposed on individuals and it's not immediately obvious that more restrictions meant less disease. Dismissing governments ability to utilize fear in order to enact powers they previously didn't hold, just because one fear is something held more dearly is how all of these things pass. Child abuse and covid are both real and both are and were used to give government power that most free societies would reject outright and without further question if neither existed.
- hoseja 5y ago
  COVID was unknown. It's perfectly reasonable to shut things down when there's an unknown disease going around, even if it turns out not quite apocalyptic.
RC_ITR 5y ago
When you're a hammer (libertarian) everything looks like a nail (bad faith crisis management to justify to government overreach). The problem is the world is full of crises that need government support, the question is which do we want addressed?
- pitaj 5y ago
  The world is full of crises created by government intervention: healthcare, housing, education, etc.
  - RC_ITR 5y ago
    Wait. In what period of human existence did people live longer, have more access to plumbing, or have better literacy? The government caused all those things to go up
    - eschevarria 5y ago
      Economic growth caused these things to go up; the governments (which also existed in past periods of human existence) caused growth to be much slower than it could have been. Don’t confuse government causing a increase in government spending on something with causing an increase in the actual supply of that thing. When governments restrict the supply of healthcare and housing (which they do, through professional licensing and zoning regulations), they can spend more on them without increasing supply.
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        If you can blame government without any evidecne he can praise governments without any evidence You seem to not address fraud in the market, like snake oil salesmen, at all
    - pitaj 5y ago
      I can see where you're coming from with plumbing and literacy. Government monopolized water utilities and education. But the greatest increases in life expectancy were from the late 1800s to the mid 1900s. The improvements have slowed since then, appearing to plateau in the last decade or so. And it just so happens that in that time period, the government had way less control over the healthcare system in the US. Literacy is actually decreasing in recent years, as education spending by the government increases. Higher education has never been more expensive, thanks to guaranteed student loans provided by the federal government. If you're more talking about developing countries, then the correlation is far stronger with level of economic development than with government involvement. In fact government involvement is often inversely correlated, slowing development.
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    If love to meet you. You seem to really believe what you say, yet it is so absurd.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  What about in the case where many of these issues are almost always nails regardless of how convoluted or complicated they may look others? Andrew Cuomo falsified and hid information regarding his mismanagement of elder care facilities. Hong Kong has been placed under de facto martial law by the CCP with the goal of crushing dissent. Various governments and government organizations have spied on their citizens through COVID tracking apps or secret purchases from databrokers. Barrack Obama recently delivered a speech at Stanford calling for an end to free speech on the net under the guise of "regulating social media" and "stopping the spread of disinformation". Why is sacrificing rights to governments still considered a necessary solution to problems that governments create themselves? Have you learned nothing from history or those who lived through it long enough to write on the subject like Orwell and Arendt?
  - RC_ITR 5y ago
    Wait, When did Orwell live in Nazi Germany or the USSR? And if you're going to compare current day to Arendt's experience in the Holocaust, then well, we just disagree strongly.
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    Hong Kong fighting against cccp takeover has nothing to do with covid. You can't spell Barack. And you misinterpret what he said. I've likely read Orwell and Huxley more than most. Again, you only seem to see bad faith.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    'secret purchases from databrokers.' Don't you complain about mah free market libertarian data brokers!
Dracophoenix 5y ago
I can't speak for Europe, but in the United States one can't unless he is unaware of his being a hypocrite.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  What? Defend this statement.
TeeMassive 5y ago
Here in Québec our PM just renewed the emergency measures 110 times: https://www.quebec.ca/sante/problemes-de-sante/a-z/coronavirus-2019/mesures-prises-decrets-arretes-ministeriels/ https://www.quebec.ca/sante/problemes-de-sante/a-z/coronavir... One of the special power it grants him are no-bid contracts; among which are hundred of millions of dollars media organizations and public opinion polling of the population. He also reported the obligatory investigation that comes with invoking the emergency measures after the elections in October.

Just for the record, one can believe in Covid restrictions of 2020 and also believe this CSAM action is absurd and anti-privacy. Equating them is shallow at best and misleading at worst.

boredumb 5y ago

One can believe in covid restrictions, but they would be naive if they think there wasn't a huge cost imposed on individuals and it's not immediately obvious that more restrictions meant less disease. Dismissing governments ability to utilize fear in order to enact powers they previously didn't hold, just because one fear is something held more dearly is how all of these things pass. Child abuse and covid are both real and both are and were used to give government power that most free societies would reject outright and without further question if neither existed.

hoseja 5y ago
COVID was unknown. It's perfectly reasonable to shut things down when there's an unknown disease going around, even if it turns out not quite apocalyptic.

RC_ITR 5y ago

When you're a hammer (libertarian) everything looks like a nail (bad faith crisis management to justify to government overreach). The problem is the world is full of crises that need government support, the question is which do we want addressed?

pitaj 5y ago
The world is full of crises created by government intervention: healthcare, housing, education, etc.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  Wait. In what period of human existence did people live longer, have more access to plumbing, or have better literacy? The government caused all those things to go up
  - eschevarria 5y ago
    Economic growth caused these things to go up; the governments (which also existed in past periods of human existence) caused growth to be much slower than it could have been. Don’t confuse government causing a increase in government spending on something with causing an increase in the actual supply of that thing. When governments restrict the supply of healthcare and housing (which they do, through professional licensing and zoning regulations), they can spend more on them without increasing supply.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      If you can blame government without any evidecne he can praise governments without any evidence You seem to not address fraud in the market, like snake oil salesmen, at all
  - pitaj 5y ago
    I can see where you're coming from with plumbing and literacy. Government monopolized water utilities and education. But the greatest increases in life expectancy were from the late 1800s to the mid 1900s. The improvements have slowed since then, appearing to plateau in the last decade or so. And it just so happens that in that time period, the government had way less control over the healthcare system in the US. Literacy is actually decreasing in recent years, as education spending by the government increases. Higher education has never been more expensive, thanks to guaranteed student loans provided by the federal government. If you're more talking about developing countries, then the correlation is far stronger with level of economic development than with government involvement. In fact government involvement is often inversely correlated, slowing development.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  If love to meet you. You seem to really believe what you say, yet it is so absurd.
Dracophoenix 5y ago
What about in the case where many of these issues are almost always nails regardless of how convoluted or complicated they may look others? Andrew Cuomo falsified and hid information regarding his mismanagement of elder care facilities. Hong Kong has been placed under de facto martial law by the CCP with the goal of crushing dissent. Various governments and government organizations have spied on their citizens through COVID tracking apps or secret purchases from databrokers. Barrack Obama recently delivered a speech at Stanford calling for an end to free speech on the net under the guise of "regulating social media" and "stopping the spread of disinformation". Why is sacrificing rights to governments still considered a necessary solution to problems that governments create themselves? Have you learned nothing from history or those who lived through it long enough to write on the subject like Orwell and Arendt?
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  Wait, When did Orwell live in Nazi Germany or the USSR? And if you're going to compare current day to Arendt's experience in the Holocaust, then well, we just disagree strongly.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  Hong Kong fighting against cccp takeover has nothing to do with covid. You can't spell Barack. And you misinterpret what he said. I've likely read Orwell and Huxley more than most. Again, you only seem to see bad faith.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  'secret purchases from databrokers.' Don't you complain about mah free market libertarian data brokers!

Dracophoenix 5y ago

I can't speak for Europe, but in the United States one can't unless he is unaware of his being a hypocrite.

unethical_ban 5y ago
What? Defend this statement.

TeeMassive 5y ago

Here in Québec our PM just renewed the emergency measures 110 times: https://www.quebec.ca/sante/problemes-de-sante/a-z/coronavirus-2019/mesures-prises-decrets-arretes-ministeriels/ https://www.quebec.ca/sante/problemes-de-sante/a-z/coronavir... One of the special power it grants him are no-bid contracts; among which are hundred of millions of dollars media organizations and public opinion polling of the population. He also reported the obligatory investigation that comes with invoking the emergency measures after the elections in October.