7 ms·

As a kid I always wanted to go to the USA, maybe even live there. So many things to see, the business opportunities and the propagated freedom were very attract

by eis 15y ago

As a kid I always wanted to go to the USA, maybe even live there. So many things to see, the business opportunities and the propagated freedom were very attractive. During the last decade though, the USA have done a fantastic job of eradicating every bit of what was left of this dream. Nowerdays all you hear from them is how Hollywood is destroying little guys' lifes for downloading a bunch of songs, exporting those policies with force to other countries, insane financial schemes and starting several wars. Right now I am planning a trip to Japan. A country, which was hit by a nuclear meltdown crisis, floods, earthquakes and more. I'd still choose it over going to the USA any day. Maybe that's something to think about. The USA are going down fast and it doesn't look like there are changes in sight in regards to their handling of immigrants, the wars or the rampand self-made economic problems. And that is a shame.

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davidw 15y ago
> eradicating every bit of what was left of this dream. I have never, ever seen a phrase so absolutely and totally full of hyperbole on this site.
- 0x12 15y ago
  Why? That's his feeling, it is whatever he writes. Whether it is full of hyperbole or not is not knowable, he'd have to admit to that himself or you'd have to scan his brain.
  - davidw 15y ago
    The sentence was a bit tongue in cheek, something that seems to have completely escaped those piling on with their indignant downvotes, as a way of exercising their frustration with the poor state of US immigration policy. "There, downvoted! Now I've done my part to make the world a better place!". The US has had problems going back to when it was founded, and slaves - black people, mostly - were counted as 3/5ths of a human being. That's a sight worse than the stupid airport scanners, or many other modern stupidities in my book. There are plenty of other things to dislike about the place, too, that are not recent. But plenty of things to like, and every other country has plenty of negatives too, if you look closely. I disagree with plenty of things in the US, but I'm not so fond of sweeping statements.
    - 0x12 15y ago
      Fair enough. The reasons why it rubbed me a bit are (1) I know you're an American living abroad, so at least you've seen both sides of the fence, and (2) I used to think much like the OP and today I won't even go to the USA for business any more. They've managed to eradicate a good part of my respect for the country as a whole as well, and one of the main issues is the way new arrivals are treated by immigration. How the government treats people that are at its mercy is a pretty good indicator for the state of affairs, and in this respect the USA is not looking too good, to put it mildly.
    - prodigal_erik 15y ago
      Slavery was appalling, but nobody was advocating 3/5 as an actual statement about their metaphysical humanity. It was a purely political compromise on the total influence and taxation of the south vs. the north, because they couldn't agree on x + 1/2 y or x + 3/4 y. The proper number for congressional representation should have been zero, not because slaves weren't people but because they weren't permitted to vote.
  - eis 15y ago
    I agree it was worded a bit harshly but on the other hand, that dream I had honestly is gone. So it's not hyperbolic, just maybe not worded perfectly I admit. Some people may understand my initial comment as bashing against the USA. I want to clearly state that I didn't mean that at all. The last sentence was to express that I'm sad to see such things happen and I'll be the first to cheer if the USA can restore what it used to be and I believe it has everything it takes to achieve that.
TruthElixirX 15y ago
I don't think the USA killed this dream over the past decade. I'm pretty sure things have always been like this for non-whites in the U.S., it is just that the internet allows one to dispel the propaganda.
drieddust 15y ago
Ever since Obama came to power American Visa system got fucked up. I work for a consulting firm and people are denied Visa on arbitrary grounds such as "we are not satisfied with your purpose of visit", "why you need to meet your customer face to face" etc. Even that is fine but funny thing is that same person is allowed visa for the same purpose when he applied next time :) American under Obama have started some kind of cheap protectionism.
- gujk 15y ago
  Do you really think it is related to Obama's administration, or just a general trend of official xenophobia and terrorist mumbo jumbo over the past decade?
  - drieddust 15y ago
    Not sure but there is a correlation because this trend has escalated ever since he has planned for a re-contest.
- angelbob 15y ago
  It's been pretty fucked-up before Obama, too.
- drieddust 15y ago
  Down voters would you like to explain?
john2x 15y ago
Yeah, when I was a kid I saw America as "the promised land". Now, not so much.
aiham 15y ago
You might want to look into the immigration procedure here in Japan first. The people are great; almost all that I've met are fine with foreigners. But not so much the government and companies. You need a fair amount of patience to make it here (especially in the work place), unless you already have a contact. Good luck.
- hugh3 15y ago
  I thought becoming a Japanese citizen was impossible for foreigners.
  - aiham 15y ago
    I was referring to residence, being able to live and work legally. Although I don't have any sources, I've heard of a few people who have become citizens. I don't believe it's impossible, just very difficult. Permanent residence on the other hand isn't rare at all.
yeahsure 15y ago
Same here. When I was a kid I pictured myself living "the american dream" when I grew up, maybe move to the States when I became a successful entrepreneur (haven't made it yet!). A few years ago I visited the USA for the first time -and have a been there a few times since- and didn't like what I saw. I like Americans, and I like a lot of things about the US, but wouldn't live there at all. I think the problem was what Hollywood movies made me believe the US was, and what it really is. EDIT: Not sure why, but this is being downvoted. If you find it offensive or inaccurate, please let me know why. I don't care about the votes, I just would like to know why.
- gnaritas 15y ago
  Could you expand on that last sentence, as an American I find it very interesting?
  - msellout 15y ago
    Many immigrants tell me that they came to the US because of all the wonderful movies they watched. TV probably plays a large role as well, now.
    - gnaritas 15y ago
      You're just repeating the obvious part of what he said; I already know this, I'm interested in the details of what differed between what the movies told them vs their actual experiences.
      - bh42222 15y ago
        Just imagine you know nothing about the US except what you see in movies. Do you see a lot of poor people? There obviously are movies and TV which show a much more "real" version of the world. But the most popular TV and movies tend to show an idealized version of reality.
        gnaritas 15y ago
melvinram 15y ago
As a legal immigrant American citizen living in Elk Grove California, let me be the first to say "duh". Movies are a fantasy world. Before I moved to the US, I saw Dangerous Minds and thought all kids in all schools carried guns with them. Of course, this wasn't reality when I moved here. America has her faults but you really shouldn't discount her beauty based on the news and it's mismatch to movies. "Hollywood is destroying little guys' lifes for downloading a bunch of songs" - technically they've only sued a few people... and really, people shouldn't be stealing music anymore with songs available for 99cents now. "insane financial schemes" - ya, there are a few really ethically challenged people who are smart enough to take advantage of others in America. But really, there are a lot of really fantastic people here as well. My business partner is someone I would be comfortable giving a blank check. I've accidentally forgotten my iPhone at Starbucks a couple times and it was returned both times. The area I live in is very safe (knock on wood.) Our garage door has accidentally been left open twice in the last ten years and we had left for the weekend. The first time nothing happened. The second time, our neighbor stayed up all night to keep watch. True story. There are a lot of good people and yes, there are some bad people. America is a diverse collection of people. That is her strength.

by eis 15y ago

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davidw 15y ago

> eradicating every bit of what was left of this dream. I have never, ever seen a phrase so absolutely and totally full of hyperbole on this site.

0x12 15y ago
Why? That's his feeling, it is whatever he writes. Whether it is full of hyperbole or not is not knowable, he'd have to admit to that himself or you'd have to scan his brain.
- davidw 15y ago
  The sentence was a bit tongue in cheek, something that seems to have completely escaped those piling on with their indignant downvotes, as a way of exercising their frustration with the poor state of US immigration policy. "There, downvoted! Now I've done my part to make the world a better place!". The US has had problems going back to when it was founded, and slaves - black people, mostly - were counted as 3/5ths of a human being. That's a sight worse than the stupid airport scanners, or many other modern stupidities in my book. There are plenty of other things to dislike about the place, too, that are not recent. But plenty of things to like, and every other country has plenty of negatives too, if you look closely. I disagree with plenty of things in the US, but I'm not so fond of sweeping statements.
  - 0x12 15y ago
    Fair enough. The reasons why it rubbed me a bit are (1) I know you're an American living abroad, so at least you've seen both sides of the fence, and (2) I used to think much like the OP and today I won't even go to the USA for business any more. They've managed to eradicate a good part of my respect for the country as a whole as well, and one of the main issues is the way new arrivals are treated by immigration. How the government treats people that are at its mercy is a pretty good indicator for the state of affairs, and in this respect the USA is not looking too good, to put it mildly.
  - prodigal_erik 15y ago
    Slavery was appalling, but nobody was advocating 3/5 as an actual statement about their metaphysical humanity. It was a purely political compromise on the total influence and taxation of the south vs. the north, because they couldn't agree on x + 1/2 y or x + 3/4 y. The proper number for congressional representation should have been zero, not because slaves weren't people but because they weren't permitted to vote.
- eis 15y ago
  I agree it was worded a bit harshly but on the other hand, that dream I had honestly is gone. So it's not hyperbolic, just maybe not worded perfectly I admit. Some people may understand my initial comment as bashing against the USA. I want to clearly state that I didn't mean that at all. The last sentence was to express that I'm sad to see such things happen and I'll be the first to cheer if the USA can restore what it used to be and I believe it has everything it takes to achieve that.

TruthElixirX 15y ago

I don't think the USA killed this dream over the past decade. I'm pretty sure things have always been like this for non-whites in the U.S., it is just that the internet allows one to dispel the propaganda.

drieddust 15y ago

Ever since Obama came to power American Visa system got fucked up. I work for a consulting firm and people are denied Visa on arbitrary grounds such as "we are not satisfied with your purpose of visit", "why you need to meet your customer face to face" etc. Even that is fine but funny thing is that same person is allowed visa for the same purpose when he applied next time :) American under Obama have started some kind of cheap protectionism.

gujk 15y ago
Do you really think it is related to Obama's administration, or just a general trend of official xenophobia and terrorist mumbo jumbo over the past decade?
- drieddust 15y ago
  Not sure but there is a correlation because this trend has escalated ever since he has planned for a re-contest.
angelbob 15y ago
It's been pretty fucked-up before Obama, too.
drieddust 15y ago
Down voters would you like to explain?

john2x 15y ago

Yeah, when I was a kid I saw America as "the promised land". Now, not so much.

aiham 15y ago

You might want to look into the immigration procedure here in Japan first. The people are great; almost all that I've met are fine with foreigners. But not so much the government and companies. You need a fair amount of patience to make it here (especially in the work place), unless you already have a contact. Good luck.

hugh3 15y ago
I thought becoming a Japanese citizen was impossible for foreigners.
- aiham 15y ago
  I was referring to residence, being able to live and work legally. Although I don't have any sources, I've heard of a few people who have become citizens. I don't believe it's impossible, just very difficult. Permanent residence on the other hand isn't rare at all.

yeahsure 15y ago

Same here. When I was a kid I pictured myself living "the american dream" when I grew up, maybe move to the States when I became a successful entrepreneur (haven't made it yet!). A few years ago I visited the USA for the first time -and have a been there a few times since- and didn't like what I saw. I like Americans, and I like a lot of things about the US, but wouldn't live there at all. I think the problem was what Hollywood movies made me believe the US was, and what it really is. EDIT: Not sure why, but this is being downvoted. If you find it offensive or inaccurate, please let me know why. I don't care about the votes, I just would like to know why.

gnaritas 15y ago
Could you expand on that last sentence, as an American I find it very interesting?
- msellout 15y ago
  Many immigrants tell me that they came to the US because of all the wonderful movies they watched. TV probably plays a large role as well, now.
  - gnaritas 15y ago
    You're just repeating the obvious part of what he said; I already know this, I'm interested in the details of what differed between what the movies told them vs their actual experiences.
    - bh42222 15y ago
      Just imagine you know nothing about the US except what you see in movies. Do you see a lot of poor people? There obviously are movies and TV which show a much more "real" version of the world. But the most popular TV and movies tend to show an idealized version of reality.
      - gnaritas 15y ago

melvinram 15y ago

As a legal immigrant American citizen living in Elk Grove California, let me be the first to say "duh". Movies are a fantasy world. Before I moved to the US, I saw Dangerous Minds and thought all kids in all schools carried guns with them. Of course, this wasn't reality when I moved here. America has her faults but you really shouldn't discount her beauty based on the news and it's mismatch to movies. "Hollywood is destroying little guys' lifes for downloading a bunch of songs" - technically they've only sued a few people... and really, people shouldn't be stealing music anymore with songs available for 99cents now. "insane financial schemes" - ya, there are a few really ethically challenged people who are smart enough to take advantage of others in America. But really, there are a lot of really fantastic people here as well. My business partner is someone I would be comfortable giving a blank check. I've accidentally forgotten my iPhone at Starbucks a couple times and it was returned both times. The area I live in is very safe (knock on wood.) Our garage door has accidentally been left open twice in the last ten years and we had left for the weekend. The first time nothing happened. The second time, our neighbor stayed up all night to keep watch. True story. There are a lot of good people and yes, there are some bad people. America is a diverse collection of people. That is her strength.