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Now that covid is waning, we're back to 'the kids' in order to allow governments absurd amounts of power over individuals. None of these excuses are put forth i

Now that covid is waning, we're back to 'the kids' in order to allow governments absurd amounts of power over individuals. None of these excuses are put forth in order to further the argument, it's to create a trap for detractors and be able to label them as evil people, killing grandma, hating kids, supporting terror, etc etc.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
trasz 4y ago
We have a perfectly good war though.
unethical_ban 4y ago
Just for the record, one can believe in Covid restrictions of 2020 and also believe this CSAM action is absurd and anti-privacy. Equating them is shallow at best and misleading at worst.
- boredumb 4y ago
  One can believe in covid restrictions, but they would be naive if they think there wasn't a huge cost imposed on individuals and it's not immediately obvious that more restrictions meant less disease. Dismissing governments ability to utilize fear in order to enact powers they previously didn't hold, just because one fear is something held more dearly is how all of these things pass. Child abuse and covid are both real and both are and were used to give government power that most free societies would reject outright and without further question if neither existed.
  - hoseja 4y ago
    COVID was unknown. It's perfectly reasonable to shut things down when there's an unknown disease going around, even if it turns out not quite apocalyptic.
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  When you're a hammer (libertarian) everything looks like a nail (bad faith crisis management to justify to government overreach). The problem is the world is full of crises that need government support, the question is which do we want addressed?
  - pitaj 4y ago
    The world is full of crises created by government intervention: healthcare, housing, education, etc.
    - RC_ITR 4y ago
      Wait. In what period of human existence did people live longer, have more access to plumbing, or have better literacy? The government caused all those things to go up
      - eschevarria 4y ago
        Economic growth caused these things to go up; the governments (which also existed in past periods of human existence) caused growth to be much slower than it could have been. Don’t confuse government causing a increase in government spending on something with causing an increase in the actual supply of that thing. When governments restrict the supply of healthcare and housing (which they do, through professional licensing and zoning regulations), they can spend more on them without increasing supply.
        ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        If you can blame government without any evidecne he can praise governments without any evidence You seem to not address fraud in the market, like snake oil salesmen, at all
      - pitaj 4y ago
        I can see where you're coming from with plumbing and literacy. Government monopolized water utilities and education. But the greatest increases in life expectancy were from the late 1800s to the mid 1900s. The improvements have slowed since then, appearing to plateau in the last decade or so. And it just so happens that in that time period, the government had way less control over the healthcare system in the US. Literacy is actually decreasing in recent years, as education spending by the government increases. Higher education has never been more expensive, thanks to guaranteed student loans provided by the federal government. If you're more talking about developing countries, then the correlation is far stronger with level of economic development than with government involvement. In fact government involvement is often inversely correlated, slowing development.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  I can't speak for Europe, but in the United States one can't unless he is unaware of his being a hypocrite.
  - unethical_ban 4y ago
    What? Defend this statement.
- TeeMassive 4y ago
  Here in Québec our PM just renewed the emergency measures 110 times: https://www.quebec.ca/sante/problemes-de-sante/a-z/coronavirus-2019/mesures-prises-decrets-arretes-ministeriels/ https://www.quebec.ca/sante/problemes-de-sante/a-z/coronavir... One of the special power it grants him are no-bid contracts; among which are hundred of millions of dollars media organizations and public opinion polling of the population. He also reported the obligatory investigation that comes with invoking the emergency measures after the elections in October.
dudul 4y ago
The irony is that "the kids" is always the primary argument put forward to pass legislations that have little to do with "the kids", while the one time we had to worry about "the kids" and their mental well being, adults just decided to sacrifice them to avoid getting a bad flu.
- antihero 4y ago
  Ah yes, love to remember that time the EU tried to break encryption to make people wear masks.
- martimarkov 4y ago
  1. Covid is a very different than the flu. After so much time - there is no excuse to make that mistake 2. There is no one time to worry about "the kids" 3. Mental well-being because they had to stay at home - from my observation highly doubt it. All teenagers I know were even more social. 4. Ever kids in kindergarten - haven't seen any mental well-being issues. 5. Mental wellbeing is not a fixed thing - that comes from the env, which in the covid situation is mainly the parents. 6. I'm not saying it was handled well but hindsight is very easy. When a global pandemic happens and you have 1B variables - something will slip. 7. I completely agree that kids should not be the thing that should slip!!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

trasz 4y ago

We have a perfectly good war though.

unethical_ban 4y ago

Just for the record, one can believe in Covid restrictions of 2020 and also believe this CSAM action is absurd and anti-privacy. Equating them is shallow at best and misleading at worst.

boredumb 4y ago
One can believe in covid restrictions, but they would be naive if they think there wasn't a huge cost imposed on individuals and it's not immediately obvious that more restrictions meant less disease. Dismissing governments ability to utilize fear in order to enact powers they previously didn't hold, just because one fear is something held more dearly is how all of these things pass. Child abuse and covid are both real and both are and were used to give government power that most free societies would reject outright and without further question if neither existed.
- hoseja 4y ago
  COVID was unknown. It's perfectly reasonable to shut things down when there's an unknown disease going around, even if it turns out not quite apocalyptic.
RC_ITR 4y ago
When you're a hammer (libertarian) everything looks like a nail (bad faith crisis management to justify to government overreach). The problem is the world is full of crises that need government support, the question is which do we want addressed?
- pitaj 4y ago
  The world is full of crises created by government intervention: healthcare, housing, education, etc.
  - RC_ITR 4y ago
    Wait. In what period of human existence did people live longer, have more access to plumbing, or have better literacy? The government caused all those things to go up
    - eschevarria 4y ago
      Economic growth caused these things to go up; the governments (which also existed in past periods of human existence) caused growth to be much slower than it could have been. Don’t confuse government causing a increase in government spending on something with causing an increase in the actual supply of that thing. When governments restrict the supply of healthcare and housing (which they do, through professional licensing and zoning regulations), they can spend more on them without increasing supply.
      - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        If you can blame government without any evidecne he can praise governments without any evidence You seem to not address fraud in the market, like snake oil salesmen, at all
    - pitaj 4y ago
      I can see where you're coming from with plumbing and literacy. Government monopolized water utilities and education. But the greatest increases in life expectancy were from the late 1800s to the mid 1900s. The improvements have slowed since then, appearing to plateau in the last decade or so. And it just so happens that in that time period, the government had way less control over the healthcare system in the US. Literacy is actually decreasing in recent years, as education spending by the government increases. Higher education has never been more expensive, thanks to guaranteed student loans provided by the federal government. If you're more talking about developing countries, then the correlation is far stronger with level of economic development than with government involvement. In fact government involvement is often inversely correlated, slowing development.
Dracophoenix 4y ago
I can't speak for Europe, but in the United States one can't unless he is unaware of his being a hypocrite.
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  What? Defend this statement.
TeeMassive 4y ago
Here in Québec our PM just renewed the emergency measures 110 times: https://www.quebec.ca/sante/problemes-de-sante/a-z/coronavirus-2019/mesures-prises-decrets-arretes-ministeriels/ https://www.quebec.ca/sante/problemes-de-sante/a-z/coronavir... One of the special power it grants him are no-bid contracts; among which are hundred of millions of dollars media organizations and public opinion polling of the population. He also reported the obligatory investigation that comes with invoking the emergency measures after the elections in October.

dudul 4y ago

The irony is that "the kids" is always the primary argument put forward to pass legislations that have little to do with "the kids", while the one time we had to worry about "the kids" and their mental well being, adults just decided to sacrifice them to avoid getting a bad flu.

antihero 4y ago
Ah yes, love to remember that time the EU tried to break encryption to make people wear masks.
martimarkov 4y ago
1. Covid is a very different than the flu. After so much time - there is no excuse to make that mistake 2. There is no one time to worry about "the kids" 3. Mental well-being because they had to stay at home - from my observation highly doubt it. All teenagers I know were even more social. 4. Ever kids in kindergarten - haven't seen any mental well-being issues. 5. Mental wellbeing is not a fixed thing - that comes from the env, which in the covid situation is mainly the parents. 6. I'm not saying it was handled well but hindsight is very easy. When a global pandemic happens and you have 1B variables - something will slip. 7. I completely agree that kids should not be the thing that should slip!!