5 ms·

You're using a thin facade of decorum to push the idea that the oppression of minorities is their own fault, with the strong implication that you have nothing t

You're using a thin facade of decorum to push the idea that the oppression of minorities is their own fault, with the strong implication that you have nothing to do with it because that's just the way the world works. How am I personally responsible by association for the actions of others, while you aren't? And again, am I supposed to be out here actively looking for people and views to disavow? Do I have to do this in front of everyone I meet, so then they'll be sure I'm one of the good ones and they can treat me like a normal person?

zmgsabst 4y ago
> How am I personally responsible by association for the actions of others, while you aren't? Whites not associated with racism are expected to denounce it. Men not associated with misogyny are expected to denounce it. I’m not holding double-standards, just acknowledging that humans work based on heuristics. > Do I have to do this in front of everyone I meet, so then they'll be sure I'm one of the good ones and they can treat me like a normal person? You don’t have to do it at all, but yelling at people because they’re human and their brains react to repeated exposure by finding patterns isn’t going to lead to the outcome you want. So if you don’t like being associated with that kind of behavior — you probably want to do it some time, in some way. That perception won’t change until there’s enough people out there denouncing the misappropriation of their identity by politicians to make it clear that they dont represent that group.
- mikkergp 4y ago
  Racism and Misogyny are actual forces in this country. Minority activists don't actually have any political power. Besides, who are you expecting to do the denouncing and what are they supposed to denounce? Before I started this comment was I supposed to do a quick google search and see if there were any fringe activists saying something to denounce? What's the time scale I have to cover before I can reply to your comment. A week? A month? What if I already denounced it in another thread, do I have to do a recap of everything I've denounced in every thread? I'm not calling you racist, No one asked you to denounce racism or misogyny, so why are you bringing it up? > there’s enough people out there denouncing the misappropriation of their identity by politicians to make it clear that they don't represent that group This is laughably unquantifiable and political forces ensure that even if this was happening you wouldn't know about it.
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    > Minority activists don't actually have any political power. As Malcolm X explained, minorities are routinely used as a political cudgel in feuds between parties — and the promotion of extremist voices is part of that today. > political forces ensure that even if this was happening you wouldn't know about it …which is why it’s important to occasionally share those thoughts in your personal life, to help unwind that narrative for people around you.
  - Banana699 4y ago
    >Racism and Misogyny are actual forces in this country As everybody knows off course, only the things you hate are actual and real, and you're being noble and virtuous by talking about them. While the things your opponents hate are disinformation and a mirage, and they're being hysteric and alarmist by talking about them.
    - mikkergp 4y ago
      This is the kind of thinking that got us into this mess.
      - Banana699 4y ago
        And you're engaging in it by downplaying and denying the very real power that that transgender ideology holds in US institutions and corporations.
        mikkergp 4y ago
        How so?
        Banana699 4y ago
        >> Minority activists don't actually have any political power
        4y ago
- curi0sity 4y ago
  What activity/behaviour, anologous to racism and misogyny in your example, do you believe is being done by politicians "in the name of (trans) inclusivity"?
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    A return to institutional bigotry, under the DIE agenda, of which the misappropriation of transgender voices (or rather, promoting extremist voices) is a piece. Further, using the claim “you’re not being inclusive!” as a club towards people who object to things such as preferential hiring, affinity groups based on protected class, censorship on social media, etc. For example, WA and CA are attempting to repeal civil rights laws to re-legalize government bigotry. https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_16,_Repeal_Proposition_209_Affirmative_Action_Amendment_(2020) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_16,_Repeal_Pr... https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Initiative_1000,_Affirmative_Action_and_Diversity_Commission_Measure_(2019) https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Initiative_1000,_Affirmat...

zmgsabst 4y ago

> How am I personally responsible by association for the actions of others, while you aren't? Whites not associated with racism are expected to denounce it. Men not associated with misogyny are expected to denounce it. I’m not holding double-standards, just acknowledging that humans work based on heuristics. > Do I have to do this in front of everyone I meet, so then they'll be sure I'm one of the good ones and they can treat me like a normal person? You don’t have to do it at all, but yelling at people because they’re human and their brains react to repeated exposure by finding patterns isn’t going to lead to the outcome you want. So if you don’t like being associated with that kind of behavior — you probably want to do it some time, in some way. That perception won’t change until there’s enough people out there denouncing the misappropriation of their identity by politicians to make it clear that they dont represent that group.

mikkergp 4y ago
Racism and Misogyny are actual forces in this country. Minority activists don't actually have any political power. Besides, who are you expecting to do the denouncing and what are they supposed to denounce? Before I started this comment was I supposed to do a quick google search and see if there were any fringe activists saying something to denounce? What's the time scale I have to cover before I can reply to your comment. A week? A month? What if I already denounced it in another thread, do I have to do a recap of everything I've denounced in every thread? I'm not calling you racist, No one asked you to denounce racism or misogyny, so why are you bringing it up? > there’s enough people out there denouncing the misappropriation of their identity by politicians to make it clear that they don't represent that group This is laughably unquantifiable and political forces ensure that even if this was happening you wouldn't know about it.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  > Minority activists don't actually have any political power. As Malcolm X explained, minorities are routinely used as a political cudgel in feuds between parties — and the promotion of extremist voices is part of that today. > political forces ensure that even if this was happening you wouldn't know about it …which is why it’s important to occasionally share those thoughts in your personal life, to help unwind that narrative for people around you.
- Banana699 4y ago
  >Racism and Misogyny are actual forces in this country As everybody knows off course, only the things you hate are actual and real, and you're being noble and virtuous by talking about them. While the things your opponents hate are disinformation and a mirage, and they're being hysteric and alarmist by talking about them.
  - mikkergp 4y ago
    This is the kind of thinking that got us into this mess.
    - Banana699 4y ago
      And you're engaging in it by downplaying and denying the very real power that that transgender ideology holds in US institutions and corporations.
      - mikkergp 4y ago
        How so?
        Banana699 4y ago
        >> Minority activists don't actually have any political power
        4y ago
curi0sity 4y ago
What activity/behaviour, anologous to racism and misogyny in your example, do you believe is being done by politicians "in the name of (trans) inclusivity"?
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  A return to institutional bigotry, under the DIE agenda, of which the misappropriation of transgender voices (or rather, promoting extremist voices) is a piece. Further, using the claim “you’re not being inclusive!” as a club towards people who object to things such as preferential hiring, affinity groups based on protected class, censorship on social media, etc. For example, WA and CA are attempting to repeal civil rights laws to re-legalize government bigotry. https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_16,_Repeal_Proposition_209_Affirmative_Action_Amendment_(2020) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_16,_Repeal_Pr... https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Initiative_1000,_Affirmative_Action_and_Diversity_Commission_Measure_(2019) https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Initiative_1000,_Affirmat...