4 ms·

Gender-affirming therapy prolongs the problem it purports to solve

9 points by Bostonian 4y ago

Bostonian 4y ago
"Olson and her coauthors could have designed their study with controls—for instance, by comparing a group of kids who had undergone early social transition with a group with similar psychological profiles that did not undergo social transition. If it turned out that the first group was much more likely to proceed to puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone injections, then this would suggest that social transition is not a treatment for but rather a cause of persisting gender dysphoria. “Affirming” these kids would therefore be locking in an “identity” that might otherwise have proved temporary."
raxxorraxor 4y ago
> a practice known euphemistically as “gender-affirming health care.” Fair point. It should be called gender denying health care in my opinion.
incomingpain 4y ago
Here in Canada: Conversion therapy means a practice, treatment or service designed to (a) change a person’s sexual orientation to heterosexual; (b) change a person’s gender identity to cisgender; (c) change a person’s gender expression so that it conforms to the sex assigned to the person at birth; (d) repress or reduce non-heterosexual attraction or sexual behaviour; (e) repress a person’s non-cisgender gender identity; or (f) repress or reduce a person’s gender expression that does not conform to the sex assigned to the person at birth. Conversion therapy is a crime across Canada, you will go to prison for up to 5 years. If you believe yourself to be trans and see a therapist, it is a crime for the therapist to try to do anything but confirm that you are trans. If a therapist were to work with you and suggest you aren't trans. Perhaps you're only gay or lesbian? That is a crime. Effectively we banned Gender related therapy in Canada. What therapist will give you proper therapy and risk going to prison?
- dokem 4y ago
  A lot of confused kids are going to grow up and ask "Mom, Dad, how could you let me have my penis removed?" It's honestly horrific. How can you have so little back-bone you mutilate your child instead of putting your foot down. Clown world.
  - incomingpain 4y ago
    Might be shocking for many, elective amputation should be something available in our society to adults. Same with if you want to have plastic surgery to look more like a cat. Freedom is the name of the game here. We absolutely should be offering sexual reassignment surgery. I am trans and have had sexual reassignment. Doing it to kids? No way in hell should that happen. None of this, no elective nothing for kids. Society should decide what the age cut off is. 18 vs 21 vs ? but it should be a protected positive right. Nor should we be arresting therapists for providing therapy, that's ridiculous and only going to cause harm. There are absolutely lesbians who are confused that they are ftm and vice versa. The government has no business dealing with your relationship between your doctor/therapist.
  - foxyv 4y ago
    Gender affirming surgery is not performed on minors.
    - margineyes 4y ago
      Yes it is, girls as young as 13 are having their breasts removed for exactly that reason, see these news articles: https://4w.pub/tiktok-gender-doctor-per-breast-removal-on-13-year-old-girl/ https://4w.pub/tiktok-gender-doctor-per-breast-removal-on-13... https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-double-mastectomies-healthy-13-year-old-girls/ https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-... And the demographic data in this research paper, published in a pediatrics medical journal: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2674039 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst... I hope you would agree that this is a horrific practice and that these minors can't possibly meaningfully consent to this.
jimmygrapes 4y ago
The sheer amount of intestinal fortitude required to write and publish this is amazing. I am glad somebody did, but I fear for Leor Sapir's life. He may not understand just how unhinged supporters of this movement are.
jakedata 4y ago
The thing I don't get - and may not be equipped to get - is why we can't make room for people to express themselves as they are without causing them to resort to surgery and hormonal intervention to better fit the available categories. It seems like the various expressions of gender dysphoria are more a result of external influence rather than some sort of accident of nature. I am sure it is very distressing to feel that you need to alter yourself in irrevocable ways to better fit what you think are societal norms.

9 points by Bostonian 4y ago

"Olson and her coauthors could have designed their study with controls—for instance, by comparing a group of kids who had undergone early social transition with a group with similar psychological profiles that did not undergo social transition. If it turned out that the first group was much more likely to proceed to puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone injections, then this would suggest that social transition is not a treatment for but rather a cause of persisting gender dysphoria. “Affirming” these kids would therefore be locking in an “identity” that might otherwise have proved temporary."

raxxorraxor 4y ago

> a practice known euphemistically as “gender-affirming health care.” Fair point. It should be called gender denying health care in my opinion.

incomingpain 4y ago

Here in Canada: Conversion therapy means a practice, treatment or service designed to (a) change a person’s sexual orientation to heterosexual; (b) change a person’s gender identity to cisgender; (c) change a person’s gender expression so that it conforms to the sex assigned to the person at birth; (d) repress or reduce non-heterosexual attraction or sexual behaviour; (e) repress a person’s non-cisgender gender identity; or (f) repress or reduce a person’s gender expression that does not conform to the sex assigned to the person at birth. Conversion therapy is a crime across Canada, you will go to prison for up to 5 years. If you believe yourself to be trans and see a therapist, it is a crime for the therapist to try to do anything but confirm that you are trans. If a therapist were to work with you and suggest you aren't trans. Perhaps you're only gay or lesbian? That is a crime. Effectively we banned Gender related therapy in Canada. What therapist will give you proper therapy and risk going to prison?

dokem 4y ago
A lot of confused kids are going to grow up and ask "Mom, Dad, how could you let me have my penis removed?" It's honestly horrific. How can you have so little back-bone you mutilate your child instead of putting your foot down. Clown world.
- incomingpain 4y ago
  Might be shocking for many, elective amputation should be something available in our society to adults. Same with if you want to have plastic surgery to look more like a cat. Freedom is the name of the game here. We absolutely should be offering sexual reassignment surgery. I am trans and have had sexual reassignment. Doing it to kids? No way in hell should that happen. None of this, no elective nothing for kids. Society should decide what the age cut off is. 18 vs 21 vs ? but it should be a protected positive right. Nor should we be arresting therapists for providing therapy, that's ridiculous and only going to cause harm. There are absolutely lesbians who are confused that they are ftm and vice versa. The government has no business dealing with your relationship between your doctor/therapist.
- foxyv 4y ago
  Gender affirming surgery is not performed on minors.
  - margineyes 4y ago
    Yes it is, girls as young as 13 are having their breasts removed for exactly that reason, see these news articles: https://4w.pub/tiktok-gender-doctor-per-breast-removal-on-13-year-old-girl/ https://4w.pub/tiktok-gender-doctor-per-breast-removal-on-13... https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-double-mastectomies-healthy-13-year-old-girls/ https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-... And the demographic data in this research paper, published in a pediatrics medical journal: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2674039 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst... I hope you would agree that this is a horrific practice and that these minors can't possibly meaningfully consent to this.

jimmygrapes 4y ago

The sheer amount of intestinal fortitude required to write and publish this is amazing. I am glad somebody did, but I fear for Leor Sapir's life. He may not understand just how unhinged supporters of this movement are.

jakedata 4y ago

The thing I don't get - and may not be equipped to get - is why we can't make room for people to express themselves as they are without causing them to resort to surgery and hormonal intervention to better fit the available categories. It seems like the various expressions of gender dysphoria are more a result of external influence rather than some sort of accident of nature. I am sure it is very distressing to feel that you need to alter yourself in irrevocable ways to better fit what you think are societal norms.